0:05  
Awesome.

0:07  
Welcome. Welcome, everyone, I am excited for today's presentation,

0:15  
and panel discussion. My name is Tim Sarrantonio, Director of Corporate branded neon one, we have a lot of interests for today. So we're going to maybe let this sit for about a minute or two, as we accept people in to the room.

0:32  
I'll go over the logistics of how this works. I'm just enabling all the chat and questions as well. For us, we have a fantastic panel for you, I'm really excited. I'm gonna get let this kind of roll in for about another minute before we start doing introductions. But a few basic items before we get started. Number one, we are currently recording this panel. And this will be added to the neon one resource center. So if you go to neon one.com, you can find it under the events and webinars section of the website for resources. And so we have the transcription turned on to will add closed captions to the recording as well. So this will be something that we try to, you know, make sure is available afterwards. The other thing is that as a panel, we want this to be interactive, not only will our panelists be interacting with each other, but we want them to interact with you. So we have enabled both the ability to do questions, as well as chat. So if you want to test out the chat, for instance, and talk, put some, you know, thoughts or insights or emojis even if you want Nancy's already kicked us off. Hello, Nancy, from Hartford, Connecticut. Thank you for joining us, if you want to pop in who you are, and where you're talking to us from that would be great. Just to test out the chat feature. We also do have a q&a. So if you want to make sure that we see something for the panelists to answer that is what we ask that you use. So we have Debbie from Pennsylvania, we have Julie from Twin Cities. We got Kathy from place revealed California we got Long Island strong, Heather, there you go. We have Do we have any Chicago folks, actually, because we are the Windy City is being represented here on our panel pretty well.

2:46  
As well as do we have anybody from Washington, DC there? These are leading questions.

2:52  
We are international folks, a Amanda's from Chicago. But we are international. Thank you. Mikayla from joining us from Ontario.

3:01  
We got Texas, we got DC area. Awesome. Massachusetts, Boston. There we go. So I'm really excited. Thank you everyone for using and testing out the chat feature too. And so right now a lot of people are sending it directly to us, you can also choose to send it to everybody to so just be respectful in the chat if you are doing that. But also, if you want to make sure that we see a question for the panel, then there is a q&a feature as well. So we are so excited to have folks from all over the United States and Canada. Joining us for today for our panel discussion on basically the creative process of storytelling. So this is a you niq panel, a lot of times whenever nonprofits hear about storytelling, you're going to hear it from the perspective of and the donor is in the center of the story. And as they work through their journey, then here are the steps that you we're not doing that today, what we're going to do is get into the creative process, we want to inspire you. And we're going to do that through diverse voices that are not from the nonprofit sector when you get down to it. These are folks who are doing things that are inspiring, that are doing good in the world. But if they were filing their taxes, it would not be under the 990 element of 501 C threes. Okay. So this is a treat. We're very excited. So let's go ahead and get started. I will be the facilitator for the conversation. But generally after this, I'm not going to be talking so we are going to start with some introductions. And then we're going to transition into our first question, which is basically their origin story. So we're going to hear first from each of the panelists and then ask them in turn, how did they get to where they are? And so because I'm using

5:00  
origin stories. And that's a very comic book term. We're going to start with Mariah rose joining us. So Mariah please, Mariah rose, please tell us a little bit about who you are. Hi, everybody, thank you for joining. It's so cool to see people from all over. I'm. So I'm based in between Los Angeles and Chicago, currently in Chicago, but I have been working in the animation industry for about about eight years on and off. And that's my nine to five. But on the side, I also freelance editorial illustrations, comics, and I'm set to publish my first two graphic novels next year. Awesome. That's kind of me professionally. So on the nine to five side, what are some things that people might have heard of that are joining us that that you've done, or

5:51  
see a lot of shows on Cartoon Network like Bunnicula? Like every Scooby Doo back when I was at Warner Brothers,

5:59  
they made like 14 shows. They just keep making it. And

6:04  
now I'm working on Clone High, which is going to be on HBO Max. Oh, wow.

6:10  
There's a show called Chicago party aunt. It's on Netflix.

6:14  
Oh, yeah. So

6:17  
all over, you have my small friend joining me here.

6:22  
And maybe during your origin story, we'll we'll I want to hear a little bit more about the personal work that you're going to be putting out that would be good. So let's let's pop it on over to Bilal. Little bit of introduction and kind of the work that you've been doing. Hi, I'm Bilal Dardai

6:40  
know when you talk about origin story, the first thing that caught my eye is like, Oh, I was bitten by a radioactive writer. But no, no.

6:47  
No, I've been. I'm also in the Chicago area. I have been working primarily in Chicago's live storefront theater scene for the past 20 years. And that includes includes, like stints in like the live lit scene, which is sort of people standing in front of a mic and delivering an essay.

7:10  
And I spent 12 years with a performance art collective known as the Neo futurists that was kind of the bulk of my work. past few years, I've actually transitioned to audio fiction. I've been working with a group called part life, which puts out a podcast an audio fiction, serialized fiction podcast called on Well, an award winning audio fiction podcast, which I've been instructed to remind people

7:37  
but and also, so my day job is actually doing work like that I write for a children's social emotional learning podcast called The Imagine neighborhood. So it's a, it's put out by Committee for Children, which puts out curriculum

7:54  
in schools that help kids learn to be kinder and more empathetic to each other. It's awesome. Very cool. All right. And rounding out our panel is Gerald.

8:04  
Hi, everyone, Gerald tan here. So first of all, I have to apologize for my backdrop. I work in a TV station, and I'm inside a recording booth right now. So I don't have the beautiful backdrop that Bilbao rows have.

8:20  
But yes, so I work in TV. This is my 23rd year being a journalist. I worked around the world, I started down the street, he had NPR in Washington, DC. And then the CNN thing for a bit up in New York with NBC and CBS. Then I was in the Middle East with AlJazeera for about 10 and a half years. And now I work for CGTN here in DC. So predominantly, I do news. I've always been a hot journalist, I do international politics. But then about 12 years ago, I got into a little bit of a site.

8:55  
I'm doing food journalism, which is sort of my real true passion these days. And so I write for publications, it used to be airline magazines,

9:08  
and food magazines, you know, BBC good food, all that kind of thing. And I hosted a food and culture show for Al Jazeera, called eg eats. And I do something very similar now called Soul Food. And I focus just on sort of Chinese food in the United States, and to see the evolution of how you know, Chinese American cuisine began the kind of food that's different here. So yeah, that's me in a nutshell. Just the police. James should never use cliches, by the way. Well, there you go. And so that actually can help us with with and, Gerald, I'll actually start with you, and we'll go back around. You know, a lot of times, I've always said that getting into the nonprofit space because my journey as an as in the fundraising world is like we're all How did you get on the Island of Misfit Toys? It's kind of what I would always ask people in terms of fundraising. So I think it's interestingly

10:00  
Hear about people's journeys, and how that might still connect into a universal process of storytelling, right? Like because because no matter what we're all tied together in terms of learning, and and that idea of storytelling, but what's your origin? How did you get to all of those different places and why you're sitting in that room right now? But, and then also connecting that into the universal idea of storytelling as well, Gerald? All right. I'll try to do this under 90 seconds. As much as part yeah, as much as Yeah, I think the news part has always just been my thing. I started this my 23rd year in TV, you know, I just was in DC and got a news because they were looking for voice artists at NPR. So it was a very random fall to journalism. I always wanted to be a journalist, but never knew that was the path they would take me. But once I just it politics. You know, I think the big question a lot of people ask us, How do you marry the two? Because they seem so different, right? You know, on my day job, for instance, for five years, I was writing about the Syrian war. And that's all I did the Yemen war and the Syria war. And it was exactly at that time, and I said, I needed an outlet.

11:15  
And I bake, I, I bake, and I take a lot of food to dinner parties, and I bake for weddings, and I wait for all kinds of things just for fun. And one day, someone said, we want to do a feature on you, you know, like we see you on TV. But you also bake. And I said, I really don't like that, you know, I don't like being the center of attention. Because I think my entire career, I have just been telling people stories, but never really my own. And that's why I feel sort of more comfortable. You know, I'm just a conduit for people's stories.

11:48  
And so they pursued me for a very long time. And so I said, I'll write an article for you. And an article became a column and a column then became a contract with Time Magazine, and then it became a book. And then my proper work said, Hold on, you know, we see your writing for everything. Why don't you host your own food show? And so I think the challenge then was trying to say, how do we not make food just about, oh, this is so delicious. And so I came up with it. Well, it's not a new idea. But I told my bosses, I said, You know what, I want to tell people stories. And so my Food Channel typically focuses on the intersection of culture, and food, you know, how a food came to be why people eat this, you know, and I always say that when people travel around the world, and migration happens, the two things they take with them always, is their language and their stomachs, you know, like, and that's what brings you back to home. So that's where I tried to kind of, you know, everything we eat is political. You know, where does it come from? Why is it so difficult supply chain issues? Hello, everyone. And so I feel like there is politics behind even everything we eat. And so when I tell stories now about food, I typically just start again with the people. Why do you eat this? What do you eat? Why do you eat it? So that's my kind of origin story. I'm not really sure if I'm getting into it correctly. But yeah, I think I want it's your origin story. So of course, it's correct.

13:17  
And so I'll use that to kind of pop it over to Bilal, then maybe if you want to kind of take the thread there and go your own way with it for your origin.

13:28  
So yeah, I mean, well, for me, like, I mean, I was I've been doing like, theater stuff, like, since high school, and then I'm one of those, one of those high school theater kids who just didn't know when to stop, and then kind of kept going into adulthood. Probably, perhaps, despite against better judgment. But I will say that,

13:52  
specifically the work I spent, the bulk of my career doing has been, has been not just

14:01  
not just like artistic in nature, but political in nature. And I think that was kind of the thing that drew me to, to neo futurists specifically, because they because as a collective, their, their mission was to and still is, to, to put out a very honest and contemporary work. They part of the system of how they produce work is that everything is written weekly, and like the show changes, show shifts every, every single week.

14:30  
And the thing that I loved most about that was like It allowed me the capacity to take something that had happened,

14:37  
like today, and by that weekend, I could be producing an artistic response to it. Whether that was something like very, very serious or something that was satirical and comic, something that was like blowing up the absurdity of it.

14:54  
I think that that to me, it's something that I've like that's something I value

15:00  
you about that specific format. I think it's one of those things that's actually very hard in theatre that, that the nature of like sort of long development times in, in, you know, typical, like trying to produce like a 90 minute play for next season that's responding to something right now, as it's especially difficult in a time when the news moves as fast as it does. And suddenly you find yourself suddenly you find yourself responding, suddenly you find a play coming out, that is responding to a thing a year ago, and that's already moved. So far beyond what your thoughts were on it.

15:38  
I'm gonna go and stop there. But I think that's that's kind of, that's kind of the angle I go through. So because

15:44  
I am seeing a thread though I am seeing a bit of a threat. So Mariah rose, how about you take us home on that, and we'll kind of move into two general, whoever wants to take the question mode after this. So sure, the thread has definitely been noted. And I'm so honored to be sitting with you guys. I'm finally planning to go see a show near futures next week. And I've been a consumer of like food columns and Altice Europe for ever. And so a little a little starstruck but

16:16  
to the animation industry was kind of unusual it was it was through a scholarship internship bundle, like a national thing for low income high school seniors. And they chose me, and I got my first internship at Warner Brothers animation, and just worked there, convinced them to just hire me, because who can afford college anyway, and started working my way up through the art department.

16:44  
I've always gone through storyboarding, I was told that it's the highest paying and the most in demand. But it is also you have control over the story. You can, like find ways to finagle

16:58  
representation that otherwise wouldn't really be thought of in these

17:03  
in these kind of hierarchies. And so it still was never quite enough. And so I think that's, that's why the common thread is you start noticing,

17:13  
very clearly what's going on in the world and the struggles in the world. And I was always kind of putting, putting things out in emotions out usually through like humor comics on Instagram, literally. And, and through that, I got opportunities to do actually like nonfiction, educational, political works through the nib, which is a really great, kind of like left wing,

17:38  
like political art site. And

17:41  
so I did things on like

17:43  
that the Native American occupation of Alcatraz back in the 1970s, covered that

17:50  
wrote about the assassination of Fred Hampton. And I was like, This is what the feels me, this is important to me, people don't always know about these things. And it's sometimes nice to just see it through a cartoon instead of these photos that can be so yeah, heavy. And so that's the direction that I've I've definitely, like steered hard into

18:12  
my two books, one is kind of going to be a nonfiction educational thing for younger people coming out.

18:20  
It's part of a series, I can't actually talk about it, but the other one is personal. And Gerald is so we have to talk after this because it's, it's gonna be called cook like your ancestors and

18:34  
very much about like, my passion for like Afro indigenous land stewardship, and also ancestry and culture. And so I reached out to literally everybody I knew and put a call out online, like, give me your recipes that make you feel good.

18:51  
Give me recipes that have a story. And, and so now I have I have it all written pretty much it's about to be written, but it's like from all over the world. And I'm so glad to be able to, to go in on the things that I feel are important and like, not, not so much turn your brain off at the end of the day content, but like engage your empathy, engage your your mind in a way that isn't so overwhelming, and

19:18  
just working.

19:21  
I love that. Mariah-Rose if you don't mind me just jumping into. You know, one thing that struck about what you just mentioned about your book, just last week, I interviewed a woman and she runs a Facebook group called subtle Asian baking, which has like 200,000 followers.

19:41  
You go and, you know, I asked how did it come about? She says the Facebook group was just so strong, that is composed mostly of recipes that people have shown. And now I'm hearing your book and we live in such an interesting time now right where you've got all this

20:00  
You have a community, there's just a community out there if you need someone. And Tim early, you mentioned you said, you know, we were looking for different profiles and a panelist, if you put it out there, Dr. Google will get you there

20:16  
will deliver.

20:18  
And so it's actually really heartening to see that that's one way, in this kind of post COVID will do that we're able to reach out and connect.

20:29  
I mean, go for it just start bouncing off each other at this point in terms of any thoughts, because people are already loving the connection. So let's just keep that rolling, if you want.

20:41  
Absolutely, or not?

20:44  
Ah,

20:47  
well, it's I think the thing that the thing that I keep hearing is, is the importance of human experience. Right? Right. Like a lot of times we we think of this as an abstract, like, Oh, I'm going to tell this thing. And if you frame it as an abstract thing, you start to lose that connection to people.

21:10  
Speaking connections, I'm being told, if my internet is being unstable, Abby, you might need to tap in here to actually do this in terms of my team. But, you know, Bilal, you know, when you hear kind of those different things, and the ways that, that Gerald and Mariah-Rose are kind of finding inspiration, what do you think, in terms of of that, and how it applies to the work that you're doing? Especially because you're working with kids and stuff like that? Right. Right. Well, I think so one of the things t hat's,

21:40  
I think one of the things that's, that's like a constant discussion, like, just both internally for my work, and then with the, the writers I collaborate with, is that question of

21:50  
like that, sort of that Venn diagram of what is universal and what is specific, and, like,

21:57  
being able to, like, you know, under understand that there are experiences to understand their experiences that are like universal in in a certain emotional way, but not necessarily it by specific details, that there are, you know, their individual cultural and regional and just even, like, down to, like, an individual families, like, you know, like, the way they they, you know, approach the world.

22:24  
And so, a lot of times we find ourselves asking, like,

22:29  
if a story we're going to tell is going to reach a broader,

22:35  
like, a broader range of children and their and their grown ups, or if it's going to reach a very specific range. And, and the value of both, that sometimes sometimes it is, sometimes it is absolutely okay, that this is not going to read the same to everyone. That sometimes it's okay for us to tell a story that is just for, you know, just for a smaller percentage of people because I think it's cuz sometimes we think about, like, Yes, it'll, it'll hit a smaller percentage, but it'll hit them hardest, it'll hit them, it'll be impactful in a way. That is, you know, I mean, ideally, like, life changing in a positive way.

23:15  
But then there's also room to do something that's so broad, that it hits, it hits a lot of people, softer, but it also gives them I think, maybe some, some like building blocks to get to know the other people who also heard the story.

23:33  
I just want to do jump in and jump on what Bilal just said, in something he, I think it's something that all of us is, you know, you want to call yourself a journalist, a storyteller writer.

23:47  
Who is your audience. That is the that's actually the first thing I have to always ask. Because even when I write something as simple as food, right, when I was writing for airline magazines, I can have to go alright, this person is stuck in a metal tube for the next hour, maybe seven hours, maybe 13 hours. We they want to escape, they're probably going somewhere fabulist or they're dreaming about somewhere to go to and so you know, you're always trying to paint a picture to capture them right. Now I write for. And I said, I write for Shonda for Shonda Rhimes a lot. And the message there are a lot of diversity. You know, she really champions kind of, you know, this diverse world we live in, and she wants stories that kind of draw from that. And so I have to go Alright, so as a corollary to that, I'm assuming those are also my audience, you know, that they want to hear kind of just a broader base story. And then I think the other thing that I really liked what the last set was just this idea of universal, you know,

24:56  
I don't know.

24:57  
For me, part of the

25:00  
connective, part of the process of, of any kind of storytelling is this idea of connection, right? We want to connect with each other here on the panel, we want to connect with you who are listening in. But how do you build that connection, through words, through pictures through moving pictures, and it's tapping into an emotion. But it's sometimes I kind of go, it's a very simple thing, right? With every subject I interview with every story I write, I try to figure out what makes them special. What makes them extraordinary, different, unique, surprising, but also what makes them like us. Because I don't want to read about, you know, just all the Elon Musk's of the world, because they're kind of just cut off a different cloth, you know, like they really, I like to think that I've got absolutely nothing, you know, in common with Jack's, like Zuckerberg or Musk because I just think they're a different sphere. But when I read about other stories, I want to know, day to day, what does one of my favorite questions to ask every chef? And I've, you know, when you speak to Michelin starred chefs, I kind of always go, what do you cook at home? What do you cook for your kid? What do you cook for dinner? And what do you cook at the weekend? I just want to know what's biggest. And they kind of go, Oh, God, I scrambled eggs five times a week. And I'm like, All right, you know, because I do the same thing. Because I don't have time at home, you know, to fix all these meals. And so that's the one thing that I've often said, you know, like, when I'm doing character profiles, and just writing stories about people, I tried to figure out why

26:42  
an audience would kind of go, Oh, my God, that's me, that's me, right there. You know, like they had the same path, same journey, they do the same things. But then they've got this edge. And that's why we keep reading.

26:55  
So yeah,

26:57  
those are two things that, you know, kind of just jumping on below.

27:01  
Allow me to jump further.

27:05  
That's really, that's really special and really good way of going about it, I feel that a lot. It's like,

27:14  
there's so much talk these days about the like, social media echo chamber, and people just taking in exactly what they're putting out and just getting kind of repeated messages. And you can get locked into,

27:30  
like a kind of a false reality of how people even operate. And so it's a great reminder to just see that most people are, you know, just trying to pay their rent and cooking the meals that they have time to cook for their family. It's like not everything has to be so spectacular. And so.

27:51  
So out of the box out of the ordinary Instagrammable. And it's good to have reminders of that. And, and I feel like with what the law was saying with universal versus specific.

28:06  
Sometimes I feel like what some films I watch, like the breadwinner, for example.

28:13  
Perhaps going crazy in the background, sorry.

28:16  
Like a very, very specific instance of how a child might have grown up in a war torn country can that's not very relatable for maybe people in the US. But just by going through a story with a lot of care, and empathy and expression can make anything very universal. Like we feel it, we understand it. It's like we're going through it ourselves. And I think people want that I don't think people want the echo chamber, I think people are more curious than anybody gives them credit for and

28:54  
just seeing, you know, those different little spheres of existence or the it's really important

29:01  
in storytelling, and it's not something that we get a lot with the big like, Blockbuster things.

29:09  
Yeah. Interestingly, we're seeing a little bit of a few similar questions that I want to bring up from the crowd. Two of them relate to how do you do your research to understand what your audiences want? need as well. And your connection I would actually even encourage like, like, it's not just delivering what they want, right? You have your own needs to

29:35  
and and then a little bit actually understanding

29:40  
the process itself of like the structure like the sausage making too. Nisha has a beautiful question that I do want to make sure we get to but I want to get into a little bit on the sausage making of research, creative and storytelling design itself. Whoever wants to take that first

30:00  
I was in the midst, if you don't mind me jumping in answering something that Andy had put up in us in terms of being more relatable, how do you find out what your audience wants and needs to know? And then go into the story structure, and it was typing. So I'll make this verbal.

30:17  
In terms of what your audience needs to know, I wonder if that's something of a judgment call, and maybe blog can speak to that as well. Right?

30:26  
Every day, in a new setting, there is an editorial meeting, where you kind of almost have to structure up the wall and go in 30 minutes, what stories do we need to know, and oftentimes, there's a disagreement. And in our case, you know, when I write a story, I become the expert, I am the only one who is deciding. So you kind of go alright, I think the person needs to know all these, you know, like, and I want the person to know, my audience didn't know these things, because I find them fascinating. Somebody think if you find something fascinating, other people might as well. But in terms of one to know, oh, gosh, you know, I don't know, I'm going to be the first one to put my hands up. Because we are now in the days of Twitter and Instagram, and snap, and people almost tell you what they want to know. And with tick tock videos, I kind of go, oh, my gosh, I'm totally out of touch with the world.

31:25  
If that's what people want to know, I don't, I can't offer anything in that regard. But no, you know, I just in that, I think, if you've got a story to tell, and a message to send, there will be an audience there on the other end. But the most important thing is to be genuine. You know, like I have learned, especially in TV, your personality comes out. You know, there is no masking, and I've worked now with so many people, and it's actually hard to find people who can put on such an act, you know,

31:59  
it's a different sphere. I don't work in that fictional space. So I don't work with actors who can make you believe whatever they want you to believe. I want people who are, you know, journalists and TV commentators, and even in the food sphere. It's really easy. Like, everything you see about Gordon Ramsay, for instance.

32:21  
He's exactly like that,

32:24  
you know, so the truth can come out, you know, and sometimes yes, people can, quote unquote, ham it up. But you can only ham it up so much. You know, it's funny, because I'll share a story. Well, I'm not sure if it's appropriate, I'll just share it 15 years ago, the first thing my boss sat me down, he goes, Listen, we just want you to know how much of a value journalists we think you are, we love you. That's why we put you on air. But we also just want to say, you know, you are working for an Arab network, and you are the face of an Arab network. And we also realize that you like to wear bright colors, and you have to almost

33:09  
tamp down your sexuality, what's the message, now this is the year 2005, in a country that has no HR, but I'm just sort of seeing in a times have really changed, and I go, Look, this is me, and the cameras gonna eventually figure it out. And people will figure it out, I don't know nothing to hide. So this is me, you either take it, or you leave it, and if you leave it, someone else will take it, you know, so all that to say, I think when we tell stories, you know, you just have to be really genuine about it. You know, like, sometimes I kind of go to my boss, and I go, I'm sorry, but the story you want me to tell is not a story, you know, I can tell it to you in 10 seconds. And that's it, move on, you know, and you have to be kind of almost a little bit brutal about it, you know, like, and that's where your editorial judgment comes in. So that's, I think, in that whole sense of like, you know, what is the audience want to know, I think they will let you know, in comment sections.

34:09  
But yeah, you know, like, in terms of need to know, I think you decide, you know, like, what is what is interesting to you will be interesting to other people. And I just want to quickly very quickly say when you talk about a story structure, there's another question about, is there a process when telling nonfiction stories is my favorite thing to tell all my interns and people like, you know, like, I come into contact with this, any structure there is, I throw it out? Because we're creative people, every story is different, every subject is different. So try to give them that special treatment, you know, like, try to break it out, because why follow the structure because if you just keep following it becomes didactic, and no one wants to listen, that's all I have to say.

34:55  
I do want to I think I just the following up on that. I think for me the question

35:00  
You know, what, what did the audience need to know is is an interesting one? Because I think I think it also, it, it dovetails with what the audience wants to know, because I think oftentimes, an audience doesn't realize,

35:15  
realize what it is they need to know. They, they want to thing that they actually can't articulate until you provide them something that they needed to know, to articulate that.

35:27  
I think I think also, when you think about what is the story the audience needs to know, I think the follow up question is, what is the story, they are not being told? Like, what is the story that or it's not being told enough? Or it has? Or it's a sort of, what is it the sort of story that has been like back burnered? Like repeatedly, where it's like, what that story is not important right? Now, we'll get to that, we'll get to that, we'll get to that. And then like, months go by, and nobody has told that story. And it turned out that story, provided really needed context for a thing that's happening now. And I think it's, I will say, it's also, it's an impossible task to create, like the full portrait of every story that you need to tell, like, you cannot, you cannot necessarily find every bit of context in a larger story, that that is going to hit every every person who needs to hear it. I think you'd do your best. But I think it's also it's important to,

36:29  
to maybe be a little kind to yourself, when you can't do it.

36:35  
I think that's yeah, that's exactly, exactly it, because you can't possibly cover everything. So I feel like what's more important than what is wanted to know or needed to know is to just inspire curiosity to look into it further to, to research that subjects, that person that language, this event further, and

36:59  
and just sometimes, you know, we don't always have the time to write a whole book on something that happened, or you know, an entire podcast series, it's

37:09  
just about giving people the tools maybe to understand

37:13  
the impact of what's going on, or what's happened.

37:22  
We had a good question. And there's been some lovely feedback. Andrew said, Thank you for sharing your story. Gerald, by the way. So

37:31  
that was that was something I want to make sure that you heard. And we will be following up in the recording with links to all the websites and things like that for all our panelists, too,

37:45  
as well. So just some people are like, where do I find this? Well, we're gonna hook you up. Don't worry. I do like this question for Nisha, I think this is a good time to ask this, which is Who inspired you to be on this journey? yourself?

38:04  
Mine was quite straightforward. I was 15 years old growing up in Malaysia at the time. And it was the first time we got cable TV. And that year 1995, we had CNN Discovery Channel, HBO, Max and ESPN four channels. And that night turn on the telly. And it was Christian Amanpour, and she was in separate pizza on the coast of a wall. And then Larry King came on. And I said to my mom and dad, I was like, I've always wanted to be a journalist, and I want to be exactly like them. Fast forward. A few years later, I was I wrote a letter to Larry King and I said, you inspired me to get into TV, and I became an assistant. So it's weird how life works out, you know, sometimes your kind of idols sort of, you know, transpire. But yeah, that was exactly it was who? I have a very pointed started for that.

39:06  
I mean, for me, I think it's, it's hard for me to pinpoint one person I feel like it's been a mosaic of, of different different, like individuals different like individual teachers, you know, part of whom inspired inspired curiosity, as Maria rose talked about, and some of whom had a very like, like, theater teachers I had in high school. And, and part of that, I would say is like,

39:32  
I had theater teachers in high school, who were very deliberate and very,

39:40  
sort of innovative with the things they introduced to our classes. I think that, you know, it's, it's there, there's some ways that you can create a very static curriculum for like a theater student. And then there are ways to say, this is this is like a, this is a version of theater and this is also a version of theater, and both are valid.

40:00  
it and kind of giving you that range to save yourself? Well, this is the, this is the avenue that that speaks to me. And this is the me that speaks to somebody else. And that's good for them.

40:10  
But I think also just like, you know, series of authors I've read and yeah, I could not track it to one person, it's gone through a lot of different people to get to where I am now.

40:22  
Yeah, it is, it is hard to pinpoint. But um, I think for me as well, it's, it's been a wide range, but I think it definitely started at home, my family is very, it's made up of some very charismatic, storytelling individuals, there's a lot of humor at home, a lot of laughing and, you know, there was never really a dull moment. And you could really just people watching, like, point out things and be able to, yeah, just make up our own story, sometimes waiting for the laundry to get done outside of 711.

40:59  
And that definitely led me into also just like the compulsive need for me to, like, put down my feelings,

41:08  
to the arts and expression and, and also also research because definitely interested in history and why things are the way that they are, and definitely a lot of teachers to guide that than mentors, but But mostly, mostly probably my mom and sister.

41:29  
Mariah Rose, if you don't mind my asking, you know, and Bilal you to in that sense, you know, I work in a complete realm of nonfiction, you know, I can only work with the people who are there. And so every story I tell, I'm teasing out, you know, I go on shoots, and I interview someone for four to eight hours, and I get four minutes of video out of it. It's been a long and laborious, but like I say, you know, what I finally get on camera is based on just asking lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of questions. How do you come up and tell stories when you get to create

42:12  
a person or character a story of family from scratch? What inspires all that? Do you have someone in mind when you actually paint this person? Or do you have? Oh, this is my Aunt Gertrude. And that's Uncle Sam, all these little things that you can make a composite purse?

42:33  
I mean, the answer is yes. For all parts of that, like sometimes it is like pulling little bits of personality from somebody I know.

42:42  
And sometimes it is, you know, sometimes it is creating something that is not necessarily part of somebody I know. But asking a question of that character. That is how would this how would the character that I've built so far react to this situation? And what would make them react to that situation? And then you start spinning out like, well, this is the history that would have led them to that decision.

43:08  
But it's different each time for me.

43:12  
I think I come from a really similar place at that, too. So it's just an amalgam of people I've met.

43:20  
Even if I'm not,

43:23  
I guess when I feel that I'm, you know, trying to represent a culture that I'm not a part of, or,

43:29  
or someone that's been through something that I haven't been, that's definitely I will go in and ask a lot of questions for usually those friends that I've had, or,

43:40  
or family members that are willing to to explain things, but for the most part,

43:47  
I talk a lot, I talk a lot, I talk to people on the street, like, like, it's just a constant conversation. And I learned a lot of things from that. And,

43:57  
and I feel like made up community can kind of form from like, it's almost like dream processing, like you go to sleep. And you you go through the memories of what happened. And I don't know, I think characters kind of sprang from from those places sometimes. But I also grew up consuming a ton of fantasy and like sci fi.

44:19  
And so it's also easy for me to break. Break reality in those ways. And

44:28  
yeah, I think it's a lot of things for sure. I would also add, I mean, certainly for the sphere, you know, and for the theater sphere in which I've been working like one of the joyful things about working, you know, consistently with an ensemble or even with just a handful of actors who you've, you know, you've known and watched their work for a while, is you get a sense of their skill set and their voice and like the range of emotions that they can bring to, to a thing and there's There's definitely times where I've, I've written a character that was the

45:00  
I want to write this for, I want to write this speech for my, my friend, Marsha, who I know is like, phenomenal and can do to handle all of these beats and all these tones and can tell this story in a way that is going to make the audience like burst into tears instantly. And it's, it's because I know she has that skill set that it makes, it makes writing that character easier for me,

45:25  
knowing that I have her to work with. And you don't always have that. I mean, sometimes you're just auditioning people, you know, and you're gonna do all three and stuff. And you can be surprised, which is also its own set of fun. But yeah, I think that's, that's just it's a it's a gift that comes with with collaborative storytelling.

45:43  
And I think that really also I've just answered on the q&a, someone asked, How do you make sure your stories stay within brand, while keeping them interesting? And, you know, I'm just trying to type really quickly, while also paying attention to what Bilal has to say. But, you know,

46:01  
he just said it, you know, sometimes you just don't know what you will you know, what you get in that sentence, right? And, yes, we often have to work with what we have. But it really does start with the vetting. You know, for instance, currently, in my show, I go to a city, and I profile for chefs, and for restaurants. And then I see how they all sit together to get down to that for I've gone through maybe 30 to 40 in my head so i'm going, alright, if this person is the second generation, if this is the person who's come fresh in the country, if this is the person who was an engineer who gave up the job, you know, like, how did they all sit together. And sometimes I have two great couples, husband and wife quit their jobs in like, both a bit amazing stories, and I kind of go, I only have room for one, I cannot have an overlap. And so I think, you know, when we when we talk about a lot of these, you know, when it comes down to telling people's stories, you can't tell everyone's and it's an awful thing to say, and I don't know how else to, to break it. You know, it said earlier in the news, I mean, this is how terrible it was. And it used to shock me in the editor of meetings in the newsrooms before, but we go, alright, what's happening in the world, and I go, an explosion in Iraq, Baghdad today, and you go, Great, how many people die, I said, four to go. Next, and hold on that, you know, and they go last week, we had 14 That was sexier, you hear terms like that, you know, and it's actually really kind of cringy when you are not within the sphere. And when you see how quickly we desensitize to what's happening in the world. But I think if you bring it down, even macro, you know, every story you tell, sometimes it comes down to vetting, you know, and it's a terrible process, what ends up on the editing floor, but you are really trying, in order to have a story have impact, you know, you almost have to cherry pick, and get the best of the best. And so, I know it's a I feel awful having to say this, but yeah, you know, and I know, and I'm trying to sort of perhaps relate it to kind of your nonprofit work, you know, because you're trying to advance causes you're trying, you know that and you really kind of go Alright, how do we make this it? How do we make people care about this issue? And for me, I always say it starts with people, you know, like it's hard for me to care about something that's going on in a just deforestation. Yes, we should all care because it's the lungs of the earth. But until I see the people whose villages have been torn down until I see the people who no longer can survive. That's when the story starts distracting me, you know? And yeah, so I always, I Rutan, one of the things, you know, I start and end with people. It's, your stories are compelling, because they are people, and people make us feel

49:08  
animals too.

49:14  
I didn't want to kind of we had we had a couple, a couple questions in the q&a. And I know one of them has been sitting there for a bit, so I want to make sure we get to it, but how do you handle constructive criticism to an editor or PR team?

49:27  
Those Those are separate questions for me. So I'm going to start with the first one but

49:32  
for me, how you handle constructive criticism. I mean, first of all, you know, everybody's everybody had a different personal definition of what is constructive, both receiving and giving. But I think what has worked for me, in most situations, even when even when I when even when I'm concerned, the criticism is coming across harsher than even maybe the maybe the other person intends.

49:58  
The thing I keep telling myself

50:00  
When I'm in a in a collaborative situation like that, is that we are on the same side.

50:07  
That constructive criticism is somebody offering a, what is hopefully a suggestion, not a command, but a suggestion for how to make the story better in a way that I have not previously seen. Because if I had previously seen it, I would have done it in the first place.

50:28  
I think it's at like having that multitude of perspectives on the story is, it's a double edged thing, of course, because sometimes you do need other people to look at something that you missed. And sometimes you can have too many people tossing feedback at you.

50:43  
So there's balance in all of it.

50:46  
As far as me working with an editor or PR team, that's, that is the writers room. For us, like we are each other's like editors, not so much our PR team, we do have a PR team that handles other things. And we occasionally overlap

51:01  
when somebody else here

51:05  
to my work is kind of specific with this as with my day job storyboarding,

51:11  
for example, recently, we had a script rewritten seven times. And they threw out just hundreds of our drawings. And we're like, they just didn't like that dialogue. So I'm very used to

51:25  
used to that. And sometimes it is the pipeline, and it's not up to the writer. But sometimes it is you. And they're like what's happening with the perspective here. And

51:35  
I think starting off as young and inexperienced as I did, I, I wanted nothing but constructive criticism, even when it was delivered harshly. I'm very open to it, because I feel like

51:48  
in the arts industry, at least with maybe animation and comics, there's the assumption that the artists can't handle criticism. So a lot of the time I've watched coworkers kind of fail and fail to take criticism, and then and then they just be fired. And I was terrified of that. Because directors, people above wouldn't actually say what the issue was, because they felt that maybe they wouldn't do it or like maybe we'd make them cry. And I've been told repeatedly, like, It's good that you're just willing to go with it, and you don't take it personally. And that's what it has to be. But then with my personal work, it is definitely harder. It depends on if the person really has really is treating you like you're on a team. And luckily, with comics, I've really come across nothing but really kind people that treated exactly in that way. And

52:44  
it's been good. So far, I do have editors that I work with, we do have things thrown out for page count for for all sorts of things. But I welcome it, because to me, it's just another form of communication. And as long as you're not being rude about it, then, you know, that's that's all that I asked for. I think it's I think it's good. I agree mariah  rose, in the TV world, for us, you know, like, when people see me on camera, they don't realize there's 100 people behind me, you know, like in every level down to your makeup person hair person, the person has pointed the camera the right way. And I do I think there are two levels in terms of constructive criticism. One is whether it's actually constructive, because there are too many comments, especially in the world where people feel the need to just speak because they want to be heard. And so you need to learn how to kind of go, You know what?

53:44  
That's white noise. So that's learning that, but then also really asking yourself, does that make the product better belongs to this, we're all on the same team, you know, and if you can kind of go you know what, I didn't think about that. That's amazing. You know, like, be humble. It's a simple thing, that kind of go, that made it better. But it's also come to a point where, you know, what level are you at? You know, it's it. And that's really different, right? I've hit a point in my life where I am a creator, slash slope showrunner of my own show. So I have final say. So I have all my bosses, we go into an sitting room, and we go, what do you think about that? And I go, give me two hours. I'll think about it. I'll try it. I'll let you know. If they say something else. And I go, I tried that didn't like, and I go, thank you for that. I'm sorry. No, even like, I actually have the ability to go sorry. Nope, I don't want to do that. I don't like it. I'm not comfortable with that.

54:45  
Or sometimes I can go. Let's try it. Because if you've not tried it, you don't really know. So yeah, that's the two less. By the way, maybe one of you might want to this is a lovely question. By the way. How do you make

55:00  
sure to respect a person's story, because in the nonprofit world, you know, you've got crisis situations. I wanted to sort of very briefly touch on this.

55:11  
Because, you know, I know exactly what you mean.

55:15  
I think for me, I've learned over time to one ask to actually ask the people, you know, when you're doing an interview and kind of go, oh, by the way, are you comfortable with me sharing this? You know, is this for public? Are you just telling me, I think, once, I've also had lots of people who kind of go, I'm just telling you, I don't want people to know about this, and I go fine. But over the conversation, they kind of and I go, Listen, what you told me earlier, was really central to your story. I think, you know, like, I can write it in a way for you to get the message across without trying to, you know, belittle, and they sometimes say yes, you know, so it's a weird thing. But the fact that you are sensitive to that question already shows that I think you won't fall into landmines, it's people who don't ever think about the fact that they need to respect the story, that fall into the traps, you know, but if you kind of go listen, you know, this person is already in that situation. You you want just tell it as it is. I also think, really, this may be counter to what is done in the fiction world. But I feel like if you tell things exactly as they are, your audience can infer, you don't have to say, look at this person. Like, you just have to see exactly what's going on. And, you know, like, if you stay away from well, so and so is one of the lucky ones, you know, like no one is lucky in this situation, don't presume, just tell the stories that is and, and I think yeah, that's my, my quick take that if you're already thinking that, you know, you want to respect their story, and where they come from, that will already just take your storytelling, that you will be respectful. And if you say I'm just gonna try and share this as it is, and respected, the work will follow.

57:12  
I want to just do a quick time check. For folks to we got a few minutes left, I want some final thoughts, I'm going to pop in some some resources that we have been putting together at NEON one coming up. Our next session is on honest fundraising. It's about how to tell your stories ethically. And we're going to be joined by an amazing person, Rick cash is going to be walking through how he's done it at his own organization. So I'm going to pop that in there. And then also, we're going to be hearing later in the month from pathways community centers on how they've built a immersive art experience around homelessness, and involved the very people in designing that process in order to do so. So there's some practical inspiration. And then finally, the other thing that I'm gonna push to, besides those generosity exchange are big virtual conference, registration just went live. So I'm going to pop in that registration, too. As we close out today, though,

58:15  
I would love to hear some final thoughts from our panelists on knowing that folks are trying to address the things that Gerald just talked about. Let's do a little bit of a round robin, whoever wants to take it first, on some parting advice on how to approach the creative process for their own work.

58:37  
Thank you in the nonprofit sphere specifically.

58:41  
It's exactly what what you were saying drawled with, involve the people who are involved.

58:49  
Ask them what's going on. I can't tell you how many

58:53  
projects I've come across that are supposed to be uplifting this this community and there's no one in that community involved in the creation of it. That's like the biggest thing that it's like people aren't they just aren't getting it. It's like you are out of touch. Or maybe you're not but one person isn't enough two people aren't enough. If your board has 15 people on it, then get get more of those voices in there. Because that's how you're going to actually understand what the issues are, what's going on what the crisis is and what can be fixed.

59:28  
I think that's my biggest thing. Definitely just just listening, actually listening, and acknowledging how difficult it can be to share some of these things. When, when getting work for my book back. I was really shocked at some of the things that people shared about being cut off by some family members, but still feeling sad because maybe they they came out and their family was not about it. But they still feel the need to make this one recipe because it's like the only connection they still have to home. And I'm like can I write

1:00:00  
So am I allowed this just giving the giving the space to allow those things to be said? Even if you use it or not? And just respect. And I think if you're already asking those questions here, you're already on the right track. Thank you all so much. This has been great. Beautiful. Yeah.

1:00:19  
Yeah, I think yeah, just even Yeah, adding on that. It's just a matter of like, how you, how you

1:00:29  
dissenter yourself from the storytelling, which, what, especially when you especially when somebody else's story is your your goal, like when making sure that story is told fully and respectfully, and in a way that is going to reach reach people both both wide and deep? I would say,

1:00:50  
like, yes, your your craft comes into it, your ability to decide what's important, like, all those things are, are part of how you tell the story, but

1:01:04  
just make making sure that you don't allow your own, like, your on aesthetics, your own preferences to overtake

1:01:15  
what is supposed to be someone else's story.

1:01:19  
I love that. Both of what Maria Rose just said and Bilal are said, you know, talking to the stakeholders files of thing, not just not injecting our coloration, our aesthetic, our view, but for me is to go in without any preconceived notion. When I tell the story, I ask everything, because in my younger days, I've learned, you know, you go and you kind of go, okay, you know, like, I just got into this flooding, right? Everything's just been wiped out. And my immediate thought is, everyone here is going to be sad. Everyone's going to be angry to can be, you know, like, blaming all these people. But then when you go in and you ask, How do you feel? What do you want done? Most people kind of go, this act of God, you know, like, we don't blame anyone, we just hope we can help you. And you kind of go, oh, sorry. You know, I assumed I assume too much. And so if we start by actually talking to people involved, and assuming nothing, that's typically a good start for me.

1:02:25  
This has been fantastic. Thank you. Thank all of you. Stephanie said this has been such a great way to see nonprofit storytelling from a different way. Thanks to all panelists for sharing. Andrew said, Thank you all so much for telling your stories. I feel inspired, excited, and have a lot to process from today's session.

1:02:45  
Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you. Sunshine, added sunshine for folks. So

1:02:52  
thank you. I am so grateful for all three of you for joining us today. This has been a great kickoff to our theme of storytelling in the nonprofit sector. This month, we wanted to kind of break the mold of just all of you folks who are listening to this just being told put the donor at the center and move on. And that's not the way to do it. And the way to do it is is this type of inspiration that we heard today. So thank you so much for joining us today.

1:03:28  
Awesome, awesome. We're at time, what we're going to do is make sure that this gets put up, it's public. This is for everybody. So send this to people too, if you think they're going to be inspired by this too. We don't charge for this type of stuff. We love sharing this type of insight. And sharing it I almost had somebody break into my room too from so there we go. I love the cat, by the way, like that was great, too. So thank you all so much. And we will be including contact information. We've put the Instagrams for some folks Twitter, but also websites and appropriate in a follow up email to and and Jerry Gerald. Sorry, I went to college with Jerry so

1:04:15  
I gotta switch it over to your Instagram. I think I did your LinkedIn for some reason. So I'm moving it over to you. Either one. Okay, i'm just a Luddite. I really am a luddite. There you go. Awesome.

1:04:28  
Very cool. Very cool. Thank you folks. Have a great day. We will see you soon. See you at our next series here as well as that generosity exchange and have a lovely day. Have a lovely day. Thank you for the sunshine, all three of you. Thanks very much.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai