1:02 Hello, everyone, this is Tim Sarrantonio Back again and we are heading into our closing keynote. I am so excited for this exchange that we are about to have. And so my part is very simple here. I'm going to introduce our kind of guide for today with our keynote speaker. And I just want to thank our sponsor bonfire for helping make this happen. This is such an exciting conversation. I can't wait Denise will be joining the stage live with me afterwards. We are pre recording this portion, but feel free to be in the chat folks like use those emojis like show us your your gifts or gifs in terms of how you are feeling that's important here. So Denise bredow Please take us away. I'll be here to kind of close this out. But otherwise, welcome to generosity exchange. 2:04 Awesome. Thank you, Tim. It's so great to be here. I am so excited. And as he said my name is Denise Barreto and I am the managing partner of relationships matter now and friend of neon one. I am so excited to be at my third generosity exchange and closing once again with a fantastic friend and fellow justice warrior Edgar Villanueva. Welcome Edgar. 2:35 Thank you so good to be with you again. Denise. Yeah, so 2:38 Edgar is the is the author of the book that will be in your swag bags, swag boxes that you will get decolonizing wealth, which was released in the fall of 2018. And I know another edition has come out too. But since then, he's also now the principal of the decolonizing wealth project that I personally I'm so excited to hear about. I've been on this journey with with Edgar, pretty much from from almost day one. It's funny, Edgar and I met. You know, you heard me say what the name of my company relationships matter. But I often think that folks don't really realize how much relationships matter. And you don't even realize how casual relationships can end up being, you know, really great partnerships, profitable partnerships, well into the future. So I have to say, That's how Edgar and I met. We met at a conference of another organization in Orlando in the spring of 2018. And it was just a chance meeting went out to dinner that night, and we've just been homies ever since and we don't even talk a ton, but whenever we do, it's always glorious. 3:52 Absolutely. I will not forget the dinner of Benihana. Also 3:58 yes. Yes, do not take a bunch of nonprofit people to Benihana on some foundations credit card, because that that that was a thing. Yes. And then we reunited in 2019, when he was on the tour, I'm at a conference, the same conference where we met we were on the mainstage together sort of like today with me interviewing him. And at the time, the book had only been out six months. So we're like four years down the line now. And not only is it a book, but it's a whole movement. So I just want you to tell the audience what inspired decolonizing Wealth, 4:38 yeah, well, thanks to everyone again for having me. Great to chat with you, Denise and just really appreciate what I've learned about this network and all the folks who are here doing doing God's work doing the good work. I've been in the nonprofit sector my entire career, and I ended up getting into philanthropy The About 20 years ago, and I, when I got into philanthropy, I'm Native American, I'm from the South from North Carolina. And there were so few people like me in the sector at the time, there's been a lot of intentionality around diversity, we have a long ways ago, I was also pretty young, I was 28 years old when I became a program officer, you know, with a multi million dollar portfolio. And so I was searching for a sense of belonging and my work. And what I found was quite the opposite of coming from, you know, a poor community and being thrown into this space where there's a lot of privilege, a lot of white privilege, a lot of wealth, a lot of tradition, it was really difficult to navigate, and I enjoyed the perks that were afforded to me being in that position. And, but at the same time, it was really sort of a lot of like power operating in ways that were really challenging for me to navigate as a young person of color. I think that what I, as I went through a couple of years of doing that work, I began to see that my experience was very shared, you know, when people of color, LGBT, LGBTQ folks, like folks from marginalized backgrounds trying to do good in this particular space, found it very, very challenging. Often, if the status quo was rewarded, you were promoted and rewarded if you assimilated and code switch with the best of them. And so I got, you know, at some point, just really exhausted and even physically sick for sort of internalizing a lot of that oppression, where I thought I took a job because I was going to do good in the world. And I'm like, why is it so hard to actually do good. And then what I begin to see is a lot of my friends leave the industry, you know, smart people of color, who were not going to stay and like tolerate the lack of change, when we were brought in to make a difference. But we weren't really allowed to lead in our, you know, in our full selves. I also noticed that in this industry of philanthropy, which is now a $1 trillion industry, so few dollars actually went to leaders of color to nonprofits working in their community, on led by people of color. In fact, we know from research that less than 10%, about 8% of grants, go to organizations that are led by people of color explicitly working in equity, which I think is just the injustice when you consider the kind of 7:46 the money was built, right, you build that money, how you build that money, 7:51 come from all these impacts on whose land right, and so I've made it my life's work at that point to to try to address those issues to call them out and to offer a different way. And I felt, you know, a calling from my ancestors to do this work. And I felt the responsibility to so many brothers and sisters and relatives in this work that had really just honestly, like, experienced very toxic kinds of situations. So I decided to write the book. And they came out in 2018, as you mentioned, and it was, for me, a way to find my own healing and the space to tell my story to to really rip the band aid off and get to a real conversation about what's really happening in the nonprofit sector to call out colonization and white supremacy, and how it shows up a manifest day to day in this work. And so offer a different way, because I knew I know that a different way as possible. So that's why I began my journey to write the book and the rest has just been a really fast moving train. 9:01 Right? There's like a moment there when I couldn't even you were just going, going, going going. And you were doing that while you were still at the shop foundation. Right? When you originally. So why don't we I want to actually, I want to pick up on some a couple things you said there. First of all, you made a comment about the change and losing people from the industry. And that's not something we necessarily plan to talk about. But would you mind touching on the generational implications of what you said, because I'm actually launching right now in the second largest county in the country, racial mandatory racial equity training that even our electeds are going to have. We're one of the first jurisdictions to do that. And I've started with generational diversity. And the reason is because in seriousness, and I would think that philanthropy has the same issue in government, we have five generations In the workplace, people say that all the time, you know, they say it as a youth. But you and I know it's really in philanthropy and government, those are places where you might have a 78 year old, working with a 22 year old. And so you made a comment that people of color that we're in, we're in the same generation, I didn't even realize how close in age we were. Anyway, I just want to know, like, ya know, 10:26 trying to preserve trying to preserve. 10:31 But what you said was they were leaving. And I think that that was part of your wake up call, because generationally speaking people of color have been in philanthropy, but what did they do? Right? And what was different about us? Our Gen X? Tell me about that. 10:46 Yeah, it's so real. There's an organization called ABFE the Association of Black foundation executives who put out a report years ago now called the exit interview, where they were interviewing black professionals who left a feeling of philanthropy and why, and it's no surprises, the same reason, people of color bipoc professionals leave any job, right? Because there, there was no room to grow. It was uninspiring. No place for ideas, right. And so essentially, what was happening in philanthropy, a field that still to this day, it has 90%, white CEOs, 90%, white boards, most of the people of color who come into this field are in junior positions with no real opportunity to advance. And so I, you know, so people left, because if you come into this, you know, obviously, foundations are looking for the cream of the crop, often for people of color who are coming from Ivy League institutions, that how can you ignite it? Right? Not valuing lived experience. And so to come into a place as the only as many of us were, it is, it is just really challenging, so to be the only and to not have to feel supported and your leadership and being explicitly told to leave your culture and racial at the door. And there's a forced assimilation that happens that I go into a lot of detail in the book, because some of it is just 12:15 better read now, because I have no excuses. 12:19 And I think that everyone can relate in the world has evolved. And I think things are a little bit better for for folks, at least in a sector of philanthropy. But we're not seeing real change. And I think that, you know, it's generationally, I think it's, you know, what the stereotype of millennials is that they really do want to make change in the world, and they are coming into the nonprofit sector, more and more and, but what we're also experiencing, there's another other research that's done by my friend, Sean at building movement project, is that when it comes to nonprofit leadership, it is still predominantly white. White people surveyed say they don't even want to be in leadership, and you have all these younger people of color who say, Yes, I want to be I want to be a leader, yet, there's a lack of investment and support for their leadership in this sector. And so we have this facing leadership crisis in the nonprofit sector, where which is unnecessary when you have a, you know, a cohort of young ambitious people of color who want to lead and yet are not given the opportunities to apply the resources to do so. So they're gonna leave, 13:33 right. And the reason I wanted to bring that up is because when you like knowing what our audiences, that understanding of how generations have view, view, work differently, view this kind of work differently, we need to be mindful of that, right? We need to be mindful of that. Because, um, you know, I know right now you hear all these different stories about, you know, folks not wanting to work or whatever. And that's not the case, what is happening is, people don't want to be abused, right, and people don't want to be exploited. And in previous generations, you've been able to do it, and now, you know, Gen X or started it, and let me tell you Gen Z about to finish it. 14:15 That's true. It is true. And, you know, I faced that on my own leadership, I run a nonprofit, I have some young staff and I don't think of myself as being too old, but I definitely have had to be flexible in my own leadership to support and to see a different way of getting work done. And as long as the work is getting done now, you know, I've been willing to accommodate that and but we've got to make space for the brilliance of other people and especially, 14:51 and we got to make space for it looking different, right? Like I have two Gen Z'ers and one of my oldest is in LA and One of the things when when she was leaving fashion school a couple years ago, I was like, why are you doing that? And I was in my brain saying she doesn't have any resilience. And what I really had to stop myself and say is she's going to build her resilience differently? And how about this? Let's stop making people resilient and make these systems resilient. Right? Let's make infrastructure resilient. People shouldn't have to be resilient. Right? I mean, so one other thing, and then I'll move on to the next question that you said that triggered for me something, you said, I wrote this book to find my own healing. And that when you did that, you realize that it was a shared experience. And as you started to talk to people, um, do you mind touching on like, how healing ourselves invites healing for others? Because that's basically what you said, 15:50 Yeah, you know, I never thought of myself as a healer, before, like, I actually, you know, did go to seminary back in the day, and I felt a call to ministry and service and whatever. But I, you know, didn't identify with that with the idea of myself being a healer. But what I knew is that I was wounded, and that I was carrying around a lot of stuff, and that I had internalized from working in a dominant privilege space for so long. And, you know, to be the only Native American, for example, in an organization that is one of the largest foundations in your state, whereas zero Native American organizations were being supported zero, and to try to make the case that we should be supporting it to hear things like what did they need money don't they have casinos aren't they aren't native americans rich, and they don't have to pay taxes, to hear ridiculous ignorant statements like that it's really traumatizing when, you know, the poverty that people are experiencing in your communities. And so, you know, I, I got to a certain point in time where I questioned my own leadership and role in this work and left philanthropy, and felt like, well, there must be another place where I'm called to be of service. And, you know, I was I was hurting, I was hurting, I felt that I had really given it my all and some of these places, and that I just felt really disrespected and abused, to be honest, and some of the patients. And so writing for me was an outlet I needed to get out. And philanthropy, you all know, there's a power dynamic there. It's not a place where people can call out and say, you know, bite the hand that feeds us, so to speak, right. And so I journaled a lot, and I wrote about it, and I had these conversations with folks and begin to collect these stories of other folks as experiences. And it was really a day for me where I, where I realized the healing thing, very specifically, I was meeting with an elder in my community in North Carolina, and I was just telling her about, I'm lost. I'm, like, I thought this was where I was gonna make a difference. I feel passionate about helping communities, we need these resources and money, but there's so much like history and systemic stuff, in the way of making that happen. And I don't know that I'm strong enough for that I am capable of making a difference back because I have tried it every time it just comes back to like, bite me. And what this elder said to me in that moment, is that the medicine that had chosen me was money. And what we believe in indigenous cultures, is that, you know, your medicine is something that's sacred, it's your calling, it's your gift is something that makes you feel whole and restored. And it's also something that you can share with the world. And so that was like that sent me on a tailspin to think about how can money be my medicine is like, dirty, you know, something that has caused so much pain and separation. And I had to get to a place where I realized that it wasn't about the material thing of money, but it was like how we, as people have used money, we call it the fear of separation and scarcity mindset. And is it possible to flip that on a paradigm and think about it being used as medicine, money being used for repair to facilitate healing and communities? And here I am this this broken person who had an elder to say that she saw that in me. I accepted that calling and I begin to dig deep. And even when I started writing the book, Denise, I didn't know the answer. All I had was pain just started you just started. I was like, I just wanted to burn it down. I was like this industry, these you know, it just needs to be flipped over. I wanted to pull the curtain back and reveal all the bad things. But I had to stop and say, Okay, I've been wounded, but what would what is my solution? What would I do differently? What considering the medicine I have to offer what is a path forward? And that is where I begin to heal and say, Okay, I'm healing because I'm seeing how philanthropy can be different, how money can be differently? How can I share that with the world? And so yeah, you know, hurting people hurt others. And I have learned to forgive those people who hurt me, because they were, you know, obviously been through things and hurting started. And I had to make a conscious decision in my leadership that I was not going to replicate that, that I was going to do my work so that I can lead differently and not perpetuate this cycle to violence. 20:35 I love it. I love it. And you know, that it's funny, I had my order of questions. And that serves up the next question, which is, you know, I feel very much like, strongly that you were ahead of the trend of using the word decolonize decolonizing. And decolonization. Four years ago, people weren't saying that. And since then, we all hear it a lot. Right? And, um, I would love to, for you to talk about how this has, you know, this whole book has evolved into a movement and how it's evolved since you started the journey, right? Because I, again, like we said, a few minutes ago, you were still a program officer at a at a at a foundation of that rather large one, that a lot of responsibility. And so you were doing that, while you were launching the book and doing all these things, I would love for you to just tell us how, how this has evolved, right? Like the book, he told us how the book came about. So how did that evolve into the decolonizing? Wealth project? 21:41 Yeah, oh, my gosh, it's been it's been unreal. So yeah, I was working, you know, at a foundation when I wrote the book, and I had such support from from the leadership and the board has shot to do this work. And I really literally thought is what was going to come out? I would do a few little events, and then kind of just continue on with my life. Right? Right. Right idea. And I knew we I had a book launch party in New York City where I live, and I wanted to have like this big party one because I love a good party, right? I remember. And then too, I, I had this, this sense of I, being who I am in the world and what this book represents, I want to have a party that is on the caliber of any party that any book has ever had this been released. And so I had a vision for a party that was quite a party. I bring and and I knew at the moment that I had this party in New York City, where we had young Hollywood people that 22:58 yeah, we never gets 23:00 all have the, you know, head honchos of philanthropy in New York City, I also have my community there. And that space became a sacred space. There were elders there who prayed prayers and sang songs, and you could fill it in the building that something was being born. And that night, it's flipped something for me. And I absolutely heard from so many folks that it was an experience that they had never had. And so as I begin to go out in the world, and to talk about the book and the work and have some speaking tours, it just never ended. It just started. My job was like, at your go the world like go right now, this is where the world needs you. And in 2019, I did 95 keynotes at conferences around the world. Whoa. 23:51 So I was one of 95 with you. 23:56 It was, I was really just responding to a moment where you don't, it's not about me as a person, I stand on the shoulders of so many people. And maybe I had a teaspoon of water that I put on a seed, but it just hit at a time where we desperately needed to shift this conversation and to go deeper from just surface conversations about diversity to something real transformational or radical. And also, my approach and talking about decolonization and justice is one that is super inclusive, it is bringing white people to the table and saying, okay, collectively, what are we going to do about this shawl and not saying it's your fault or my fault or whatever, but we are all in this mess together. And it's going to take healing all around and all of us coming together to get out of it. And so what happened the year 2019 I wish if I knew what I knew now that I would have like made a documentary about it because right and even that one Moment in Denver we had together that week was something else right? With the snow bomb opponents, right? 25:06 We got, well, I didn't get stuck, because I was like, but But yeah, that you're right. That was really 25:12 that was a whole that was a whole like episode right there. But what I witness that you're traveling, I've never seen anything like it where I met hundreds, if not 1000s and 1000s of people who deeply related to my experience as a leader of color, who said that the book gave them language, something they have felt and experienced, but cannot quite get their mind around. And it offered a way out and a way forward. And so, you know, I'm just out speaking, and then I got invited to, hey, can you come and like do a workshop with us? Can you there was a demand for more and more and more. And so I began to just kind of respond to the demand, what was needed and how it can be helpful. And so that was happening much of 2019. And then in the September 2019, I saw the opportunity to launch a fun, okay, what happened? What, you know, I was in rooms every day, the rich white people. 26:24 Shake them down. 26:26 So what I what I what I noticed is that I suddenly have become for this conscious for wealthy white people, they wouldn't want to talk to him again, say, Ed here, this is what I'm, you know, this is what I'm doing. Tell me how I can do it better. Who are the organizations I simply given to? And so I was I was sharing resources, but I realized that money was not actually getting to people, because human nature, right, you're at a conference that you might be hearing this today, say, Oh, I'm gonna do some different, I'm getting fired up. But when you get home, if you don't really follow through on that it is easy to just relapse to the same behavior, right. And so that's what was happening. So I thought to myself, I need to do something in the moment while I have people here, I'm going to start a fun, it's called liberated capital. Yes, I remember this for people to sign up to join a community of givers of donors, who are pooling their resources to fund social change and racial justice in this country. So I started that as a mechanism to redistribute wealth. Since 2019, we have redistributed about $12 million, collectively come in, we have 500 members of liberty capital, who are people who are giving every month in a 100%, trust based way where we find 100%, black and indigenous led nonprofits, all of the decisions around the money are being made by people from those communities who know what's up, right, or they're working on the front lines of those issues. And in this community of donors, we have the opportunity to come together and talk about healing and transformation. And giving as one way to see that through but they're able to not only liberate the money to community that is working on liberation, but they are able to be liberated from the need to dominate and control and dictate how people use money to focus on their own healing. And so what's happened since then, is that we've grown to be a pretty robust organization with nine full time staff and we 28:35 program you have nine full time people. 28:37 I know we just had a staff retreat. I'm like, Who are these people? Where did they come from? And like all y'all running nonprofits, I got to sustain this. I'm thinking right? 28:47 It puts the pressure man up like the money come in. Wow, congratulations. We're lucky. Let's pause and congratulate Did you hear when he said he, like started a fund in 2019, which was right before you started that fund six months, right before four, I remember when you started the fund. And that's kind of the last time I was tuned in because like everybody else, we've been in all this trauma. And you're telling me that today, right? Three years later, right, three years later from starting the fund, you have nine full time people, kudos, and congratulations to you. Thank you. 29:25 No, thank you. And it's been really beautiful to witness and to create. You know, you all are nonprofit leaders. So you know, the power dynamics and the dance that has historically been in place between funder and recipient. What we're creating through Liberty capital is really a laboratory to put into place all the ways to do this differently, that it doesn't have to be about that transactional thing, but it can really be about getting folks money that desperately need it and are on the frontlines of work. And with that Liberation we are able to fund work that a lot of donors or big foundations won't touch. We've launched a very first fund in this country to support reparation campaigns around the country. 30:12 I live in Evanston, Illinois. The first place to 30:16 Yeah, it's possible. And we have moved $4 million to support reparation coalition's. And it's been really amazing to be able to do that. And because we're doing that we're able to now influence big philanthropy folks now are talking about reparations and funding the movement directly, we're talking about foundations like MacArthur Foundation, Ford foundation, foundation, would not touch this and 30:45 even say, you wouldn't even say that would even say reparations. Four years ago, nobody would say that in a meeting. 30:51 Absolutely. And so now it's you know, we are seeing funding go and what seemed like a pipe dream for a lot of people to imagine reparations happening for black Americans in this country is within reach. There's active legislation happening at the federal level, and in many states and cities, to to pass reparation bills in this country. So it's been, I can't even explain to these has been so amazing to witness and to see this has been so much bigger than me and sure traveled the world and to see people doing work and teaching college classes about decolonizing. 31:31 Wealth, well, I, you know, I want to bring it, I love that, and then we're gonna get back into the organizational stuff. So don't lose any of that. All right. Well, I want to go back to a question I skipped over. And that question is, what is this resource meant to you, to your family, to your people, right, like you, you've mentioned that you're, you know, you went to an ancestor, and they're the ones who really sparked, you talked about, um, you know, that this was a calling from your ancestors. So I really do want to share with everybody, you know, what this has meant to you personally, and to your family and to your people? 32:11 Yeah, I appreciate that question. I think, I mean, personally, it's been life changing. And I think to, to be in an industry for so long, it's like the boot is on your neck, and danger of being fired at any moment, because you are not fully conforming, and that you're speaking up on behalf of and, and to actually be punished and pushed out of jobs for that. So to go from that to be sort of, you know, feeling like I'm on top of the world and I have so much influence and power in this industry. Now. It's like, and not from a selfish ego point of view. To be in that position is really, I mean, all I can say is like, like, like my grandfather would just say, look like I could do, right, because I didn't do that. And being in that position has allowed me to open so many doors and to advocate for so many folks who have not had the opportunity or unwilling or don't want to be in the belly of the BS doing that work, right. So it can appear all glamorous, right? But trust me, I'm in the 33:23 lonely it's when you Yeah, no, I don't you know, I know. As I'm a person like you, when you're pioneering and you're doing something that people haven't done before. You're right, like it does look glamorous, but I use social media to let y'all know when I'm falling apart. 33:42 No, it is really it. There's an inside outside game in there, those of us who you know, I use that proximity to the welfare pelvis that I that I've had and the trust that I've built by sticking with it for so long. I leverage that power to liberate resources. And so what that has been is that you know, I feel like I've been a major part of shifting the weather and the conversation and entire industry where black folks native folks other people of color are increasingly being not seen as takers are the recipients are poor black and brown people are there to like No, actually, we are setting best best practice for how philanthropy should operate. Like our cultures of giving in our way and worldview of seeing how we show up in community together what happened in the pandemic and the mutual aid stuff that people Yeah, oh, that's I mean, we've been doing that for years. Yeah, 34:40 that's not new. That's mutual aid. That's 34:44 right. And so bringing that now to where this industry is seeking out people like us to say okay, teach us like our way it hasn't been working. There's got to be a different way is really amazing to see. Our firms grow and prominence and have have seats at the table and are redefining what philanthropy means. And, you know, I say that this is not my something radical or, you know, that I've come up with, but this is modern philanthropy, and this is how we do business now, and we ain't, because this is the best way to go about it. 35:19 I love that. And, you know, I want to I want to piggyback on something that you just said, you said, we aren't going back. Okay? The fact that this conference was born during the the pandemic, right, and we are still in the pandemic, like, I know, people are trying to act like, you know, hey, I don't have to wear a mask or whatever. But we I'm still seeing it, you know, the work I'm doing, I'm looking at public health data in lots of major cities, they're still we're not going back. And I want you, because I think that is the perfect segue to this next question, right. I think people think it's possibly easier for large organizations or large places to get on this journey of decolonizing. Because of all the resources that they have, right. But we both know, that's patently false, right? But that's the perception. So I want to bring it to this audience, right, small nonprofits who want to decolonize themselves, where do you even begin? What in what's realistic? Right? 36:28 Yeah, you know, I think of decolonizing can be such a big words, and people define it differently. For me, I think about decolonizing begins synonymous with the word healing. And when you are a smaller nonprofit, or maybe you're a new startup, there's no better time to get on that journey sooner than later to do that very personal work, y'all like work is work, and we need to decolonize everything there. But we have to start with ourselves as leaders and what who we are at home, and then community is what we've written to work, right. And so if the only time we talk about diversity, equity, inclusion is at work, that ain't enough. Like you need to be like consumed with this, you should be having these conversations with your children, with your family and your faith community, we have to always be doing that work, like take all the workshops, read all the books, do all the things, but there has to be something with, 37:24 you gotta put some action, you got to put action 37:27 and it has to be spiritual, it has to be emotional, it can't be all here, it has to be in the feet, like you're saying what the action and it has to be in the heart. And so, you know, in some of the work that I've been doing, I had a thing today we have this journal, I'm not picking it up as I just happened to be laying here because I just did a thing. See life, we did a thing today where we are working with a group of people to go through this individual journey. Because, you know, if you get this on your spirit, if you get this in your heart, you're going to start doing the right things, you're gonna start saying the right things, will not be hard to build a relationship with someone who is not like you will not be hard to find a black lead organization, right. And so the thing is, some of this can be taught, but some of it has to be caught. And it's just the way that it is. So what I say for everyone who's listening, who you have the opportunity as a smaller organization to saturate your organization and your team and yourself and your leadership, to be to be filled with the spirit of healing. And to say, I'm not going to replicate what I've seen done out there, I'm going to build this from the ground up. My nonprofit is only three years old. And we're I'm so intentional about being clear about how powers operated in my organization. It doesn't mean that there's you know, we have order and a little bit of bureaucracy and all those things that you have to have to operate. But I'm very intentional and transparent about how power is operating, and that we don't have to be at a place that is toxic. And I've done so much work in my organization, because every single person who works there has worked in another place where they experience trauma. We're all coming together as a group of traumatized people, we got a whole we got to hold ceremony, we gotta we gotta like, name it, we have to do work together so that we can operate and show up for work differently. And as you grow as an organization, you have the opportunity to have that embedded into the seed of who you are into the organization is. So that's where it starts. It's probably harder for a larger organization to start doing the work because they're already you know, it's 39:40 like, very entrenched. They're entrenched. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, that that's a wonderful way to lead us into our last question, and it's about joy. So I can remember talking with neon one, our Tim who introduced us about this conference, but before it began, and I can remember when the name of generosity exchanged, right. Because you think about it, it was during that we were we were planning this before the pandemic we were going to meet in Denver. You know, it was like it but but I love that we moved forward anyway, we did it virtually, we moved the timing, whatever, but at the core and at the heart of it was around this idea of building joy in generosity, right, in my opinion, generous, the panacea to colonialism and its various offsprings. Right, imperialism, capitalism, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, is generosity, right. And so, I would love for you, you know, take us home, if you will, with what we can learn from decolonizing ourselves in our organizations, because, you know, that's the other thing you said, you talked about it being individual, right? And that, you know, that's what how he ended up with performative shit anyway, is when people are like, Oh, this is what they told me at work, or this is the check thing, and they themselves are not really in it. So, again, the question is, what can we learn from decolonizing ourselves and organizations and indigenous tradition that you ground your work into set us up for building a more just in generous society? 41:23 Oh, there's so much there. And I love I love kind of putting the cherry on top of this with joy, because you're right. The this is really hard work, y'all and like, nonprofit work as hard. Running a smaller nonprofit, where you're fundraising and doing all the things, it's hard. And so centering joy in, that work is really important. What comes to mind to me, Denise, with your question is just going about generosity and, and generosity sort of being redefined for me is all of us in this work are moving away from traditional ideas of altruism and charity, right? Because I think altruism, you know, is something that can be manipulated, it can be I am the person who has a resource, doing something nice for a person over there, right. And moving from that, and bringing that home to less about transaction, but more about transformation. So in my work with money, when I'm talking with donors, for example, I, I think to myself, I am not over here begging for money for poor black or brown people that those days are over. That's not what I'm doing. What I'm doing is extending a lifeline into your humanity as the and inviting you into an opportunity for you to experience a collective freedom and liberation that we have to offer here, right. And so it's the ideas the indigenous idea of all my relations, which means we are we believe that we are actually inherently really related to each other, and then to this planet. And so it tears down these like arbitrary ideas of donor recipient, haves and have nots, we are truly all related and interdependent on each other planet. And so if we can really move to the world, in that mindset, it's going to really transform how we are and how we move to the world in relationships, right. And so it's going to, I don't see anyone that might nonprofit is helping as, as the needy or you're the beneficiary. These are my relatives, I don't see donors as people to be feared, or a personal resource that I need to cater to been to bow down to pivot or assimilate to, they are relative, that I need to walk them into this circle of healing as well. So that's what I will leave y'all with. It's just all my relations, right? And in this network, and at this conference, you have the opportunity to build these relationships among your peers that will sustain you into the future, because this is your family, right? This is a community of folks that are striving toward the best thing. So in our generosity, let's move from altruism, let's move from charity, towards transformation and century relationships and the process of doing so. 44:19 I love that. I love that. And one last thing, because I love what you said. I mean, this is why I love talking to you because you always stimulate other things besides what I plan. You said we are inviting you into your humanity. I think that's part of where white folks have like why they get caught up in the UN or anybody right because sometimes it'd be black people who be in positions of power gatekeeping and not give but but people in general. There's the separation and I love and even though I get triggered at the word relatives because of my family of origin and all that but but I love that you said inviting you You into your humanity, right? Not making it about the people that need or whatever but more of you need to be a human being. And part of being a human being, is being in relationship in communion with all people. And you know, that reminds me, just a couple of weeks ago, a racial equity week in Chicago. We did. We did something at the Forest Preserve, and we were doing it in the native tradition. And we were talking about how we did a healing walk in nature, and how the planet and us, like, we should be able to coexist, we shouldn't be taking the resources and doing the things that we're doing. And so that, I want that to be the nugget that people get out of this, especially people that are not people of color, right? Because you get it twisted, you get a twist it when you think that you're doing something for someone else, when you can think about it as tapping into your own humanity. That changes the game. Holy cow, Edgar, and I see Tim's back hey, I 46:03 know Yeah, well, I look especially white with the sun. I mean, what what a beautiful sentiment to also end on and and it coincides so well, with kind of the operational rules that we have here where Rule number one is put people first not their money. And, and then there's some other fun stuff there. But like, the reality is that this succeeded, I like knew it was going to be great. But like, it was even better than I thought in terms of just like, there's so many conversations swelling around, just even work. And it's and we're so scared to talk about it, because especially the organizations that are in the audience, you know, what I've witnessed in talking with our community is that we hear about all these flashy things with technology. And if you use that you're gonna get fired. And that margins are so thin for people to experiment. And I would rather have them feel the freedom to experiment when investing in that joy. And in that that community building, as opposed to the next shiny object that will somehow save them. Community is what is going to save us. Well, we want to make sure that we have some time to actually talk with, we're going to do some internet magic. And so Denise and I will be transferring into the live q&a. And then we're actually going to make sure that you have time to reflect with each other, we're going to ask you to go back into the speed networking, and reflect on these questions. And these talks. And we would love for you to share some of the things that you have been feeling and thinking and how you are going to bring joy to yourself and that healing to yourself and others. Please go ahead and share that. So Edgar, Denise, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for our closing keynote. Thank you again to bonfire for their support of this. And what a fantastic way to end the educational portion. But don't forget folks to hang around. We also have our change maker awards to close things out. We're going to be handing out some cash to some nonprofits. So. Wow. Thanks again, folks. And we'll see you at the live q&a momentarily. Transcribed by https://otter.ai