Abby Jarvis 0:03 Hello, everybody, it is so exciting to see so many of you all filing in Welcome to this webinar, I cannot tell you how excited I am to hear from these two just talking to them in the few minutes before the webinar has made my day. So as you're gonna go ahead and get settled, I'm gonna go over a couple of really fast housekeeping items, I promise you're not going to have to listen to me talk very long. Welcome to this session. If you're not familiar with me, my name is Abby, and I'm part of the team over at NEON one. We are if you're not familiar with us, we're an online fundraising ecosystem that helps you do anything from raise money to manage your donors. But whether or not you use our system, everything you learned here today is going to be immediately applicable to your work. And your I promise, you're going to take away a lot of really great stuff. I've already seen the slides you're in for a treat. Couple really quick things. Do you please ask us questions, I'm going to be keeping an eye on both the chat and the q&a box. The chat can often move very quickly, especially if people start sharing ideas. So if you have a question, please drop it in the q&a box. That will help me catch it and make sure we have time to touch on it throughout the session. That said do please talk to us. One of the best parts of these webinars is seeing all of you sharing your ideas and experiences. And I know how many wonderful people are on this call today. And I'm sure a lot of you have really great insights. To answer the most popular question we get at these we are recording this session. And you're gonna get an email from me tomorrow morning, with a link to the recording and the slides and some other resources for you. So if you have to leave early, don't worry about it, you won't miss anything. And if you want to share those with your colleagues or even someone else, you know, do feel free to forward this message to them. That said I'm so excited to introduce you to Christal Cherry and Dr. Rene Rubin Ross. They have a really great session planned for you and I know I'm going to be taking notes I hope you will too. Unknown Speaker 2:06 All right Abby Jarvis 2:10 take it away guys. I'm gonna stop sharing my screen just in case. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 2:15 Thank you Abby for the welcome and thank you neon one all right, and welcome everybody. Let me see i Hello, Dr. Renee Rubin Ross here and and and we're gonna say hello to my colleague, Christal Cherry too. So let me Christal Cherry 2:32 so let me get my screen up on. All right, here we go. Renee. It looks like we got folks joining us from all over I think I saw Washington. I saw Arizona Bellingham. Why have family in Bellingham. Oh, Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 2:46 wow. I know this is always the fun card is the international crowd. Christal Cherry 2:51 Charlottesville, Virginia. Hi. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 2:54 I am. I am I am zooming in from Northern California. And and we're going to be talking today about creating a kind and inclusive board culture. Oh, yeah. Yeah, great topic. So a little bit about, yeah, it's always fun. as we as we kind of shift from whatever you're doing before this to the to this is maybe you've seen this before. This is from Mark Brackett and it's about the color of how you're feeling now. So as you're coming into this webinar, we invite you to, to talk to say what color what word what color or word represents how you are feeling now and by the way, everything that we're sharing, we encourage you to use for your board or organization. And this is a really a really excellent one that we've we use a lot. What color word represents how you are feeling now, and I will say for myself, I'm feeling grateful. I'm going for the green of Not, not super, not somewhere kind of medium to low and medium to high energy, but really excited to present along with Christal. So what colors are we getting in the chakras? So what do you see? Just start with you. What color are you? Christal Cherry 4:23 Feeling kind of content? I like that dark green. Someone else's saying blue? optimist optimistic yellow. Someone says they're feeling Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 4:35 restless. Mm hmm. Yeah. What's Christal Cherry 4:39 cool and pleasant? Mm hmm. Yeah. ease. At ease. I like to add ease. today. Yeah. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 4:48 And if you want to get more into this, there's even an app you can put on your phone called how we feel and you can start monitoring and just be more pay some attention to how you're feeling As you as the culture kind of goes out from you and your fellow board or staff members, alright, so we're gonna get right into this. Hello again, Dr. Renee Rubin Ross, I identify as a white person and consultant use she her pronouns. I am a mom, printer, strategic thinker, I do a lot of strategic planning facilitation, I also run the Cal State East Bay nonprofit management certificate program. And I'm based in the summers in California in the San Francisco Bay area on the land of the Aloni tribe. And I do say that that some of this work comes from my students at Cal State East Bay who have who asked me who are a rainbow of people of different racial backgrounds and asked me some questions about board composition of historically whiteboards and how can we do better. So that got me on a journey. And that's how I connect one of the ways that I got really passionate about racial equity and connected with Christal. We got to do some we have the, the opportunity to do some, a lot of training with nonprofit boards. So Christal over to you. Yay. Thank you, Renee. So hi, everybody. I'm Christal M. Cherry. I'm located here in Atlanta, Georgia it's hot, hot, hot. Christal Cherry 6:25 I do want to just take a moment to think about those who are in areas where they are being flooded in areas where we're having lots of fires and things like that. So I'm wanting to take a moment just to think about them. But my pronouns are she her. I identify as an African American or black woman. I consider myself a disruptive leader as I'm always questioning things. I'm a native New Yorker, although I've been gone for 30 years, my New York and B is still here. I'm a breakfast lover, a mompreneur, a John Legend things. And my my house is on the land of the Muskogee tribe here in Atlanta, Georgia. So thank you again for having me and I can't wait to jump right in Renee. Let's go. All right. All right. So here's the challenge. What's the one word that describes your current board? Or team culture right now one word we don't want to phrase we just want one word. Renee. We got dividing. Growing stressed growing 10 Oh, oh 10 Oh, Jesus an evening. Collaborative. Okay. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 7:32 Unproductive all Oh, man. All right. Christal Cherry 7:37 Yeah. disengaged. Yes. Yes. We know about this getting ready to retire. Okay. I said what weren't guys? Okay. Karen will take. Busy. Okay. Yes. retiring. Okay, so caring. That we know they did this that, you know, a lot of boards are looking to bring in new people now because they realize their boards are aging out. So that's good to hear. Okay, thank you for sharing. Okay, so we're going to do a poll right now we want to know what makes this word challenging. Why is it hard to create a kind and inclusive culture? And your choices are a few people feel included? Others don't. I board members make up assumptions and say things that cause harm. We don't think about a talk about creating inclusive culture. We don't know what an inclusive culture looks like. We're too busy working on other priorities. So we want to ask you to take this poll, so we can just kind of get a pulse for who's in the room. Abby Jarvis 8:45 And you'll see the answers as they come in. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 8:49 Okay, no, no. Okay. Well, as Abby Jarvis 8:52 things are starting to roll in, and I'll share the results when everybody's kind of gotten their answers. And the biggest thing is that people are really busy working on other priorities. And the next most common answer is that people don't know what an inclusive culture looks like. It looks like the other three options, some people feel included and others don't and not thinking about it. The other ones are all kind of evenly split across everyone else. So we've got about 75% of people having responded, I'll give it another second. But by and large, the biggest most common answer is we're too busy working on other priorities. And I've gone ahead and shared the result just in case y'all want to take a look at it. Christal Cherry 9:33 Yeah. And so we know that this, you know, boards and teams, they have a lot of responsibilities, right? But we Renee and I are going to push back and saying creating a kind of inclusive culture is it should be a priority, right? Because we want board members to feel good about what they're doing and to stay engaged. And maybe some of those who are disengaged or divided. might feel differently if the culture shifts Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 10:00 So we got to talk to you a little bit more about that. Okay. All right. So we're going to close out the poll, and keep it moving. Thank you, Renee. Great. Okay. So we wanted to share a little bit about, but what we're hearing and just say that, yeah, so that there is this, this system that I that I put this picture of a thumb that I put on the slide that actually represents something that happened in my household, which was, you know, we have our family, we have different characteristics, and my partner has this stumpy thumb. And, and I, you know, it's a little bit different. And I noticed that my child actually has the stumpy thumb too. And I just blurted it out, you know, oh, wow, everything goes this stumpy thumb. And then my child said, that really isn't very nice to say that you're, that we have this dumpy thumb. And it's actually we can all be respected for different kinds of thumbs. But the point is, yeah, we, we naturally do compare, you know, what, what, how does this person like me? How are they different that we're wired for comparison? We're, and as we are, in our culture, we're often you know, we are often wired for bias unless we step back and really think about Christal, tell us about your story. Christal Cherry 12:01 No, so the picture of me in this on this slide is me in Washington, DC working with a client is helping us and they're a nonprofit that supports black men who are impacted by HIV and AIDS. And so I had a conversation with the boys. And I asked him about this inclusive culture and why, you know, why is important to them, that people know, when they serve on a board? Or were they in the room that they're gay? And because I said, you know, most of us who are not gay or who have a sexual, we don't walk into a room and say, Hi, I'm heterosexual. Why is it important for you to come in the room and tell us all that you're gay? What is that? What is that about? And they said, that they all want to be able to come to the room, and with their true identities, not having to lay any of it aside, and knowing that they're accepted, and that they're welcomed, right, and that this culture is kind and inclusive to people who are not the what will be considered the normal heterosexual but who has made so different and selective choices about their sexual identity, they don't feel like they should have to hide it. And so being in a kind of inclusive culture means that they can come to the table exactly who they are, and be welcomed and be accepted and be heard. And so for them, that is what being in an economy inclusive culture is. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 13:17 Thank you. All right. So what we want to do is have you do an assessment. And this is a lot of the same kind of processes that we do with with clients really think about, you know, what's working and what's not working. And so we're going to be talking about intentionality, power and responsibility. Okay. Christal Cherry 13:45 So one of the things we talked about with our clients, before we start talking about, you know, changing the culture or changing the mindset is we tell people, it's really time for you to take a selfie, look in the mirror and really take stock of you know, who you are, and how you work and how you navigate in spaces when you're working with boards and teams, right. And so before we can make any major changes, we really do need to take a look at ourselves to see if we are either victims of or conspirators of maybe saying things that are not kind saying in participating in microaggressions showing bias right, and so before we can talk about that, we really have to kind of take stock of who we are as individuals, and take responsibility for some of the behaviors and some of the thoughts that we have. And so I'll give you a prime example. I was I shared this sometimes that, you know, a couple months ago, I called into a customer service number. And the gentleman who answered the phone sounded like he had an Indian accent. And I immediately quit an attitude. I had been waiting for 1015 minutes for this person to answer and when they came on to the to the line, and I heard the accent I made some assumptions about whether I When I receive good service whether or not they were going to understand my problem understand English properly with I was going to be able to understand him. And you know, really kind of had a silky attitude as I was talking to him. And the more and more I talked to him, the worse I felt, because he was being so kind. And understanding that he understood my issue. He understood what the problem was. And he offered all kinds of solutions to help me offered his number if I needed to call back. And we just really a wonderful, wonderful experience. And I had to check myself, I had to check my own biases, my own stereotypes of what I thought this person was going to be able to do to do for me based on his accent, right. And so I had to take a I had to take a snapshot of myself and do a selfie and say, Okay, Christal, you know, here you are working with boards working in the DI space. And you went into this with complete bias, right? And so it happens to all of us. And so we have to stop, stop and take stock of who we are, what we think how we, how we, how we interact with other people and how it impacts the environments we're in. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 16:04 Thank you. All right. So we are going to give you a four question assessment, take out your pen. And so if you had or whatever it is, this is gonna be a math problem, you're gonna have four numbers. All right, you, you do not need to put your responses in the chat, you can just write down on a piece of paper or on your computer. Oh, thank you, Abby, you're ready. And I'm gonna give you four questions. And what you're going to do, if you think absolutely, we are completely doing this, you give yourself a three you give you and your board three, one is not at all and two is maybe. Okay. If you don't know you have, there's no I don't know. You need to commit. Alright, so here we go. So, first of all, have board members expressed the intention to build an inclusive culture and discussed what that might involve. You talked about this free, absolutely. One. Not at all and to maybe, Christal, you're writing this down. Okay, great. So intention. Christal Cherry 17:19 Okay, next one power up what lead is ready to shift the balance of power or allow others to lead? That's really important. It's three, absolutely. One, not at all to maybe. Correct me what you got next. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 17:36 Okay. Responsibility. Does each board member feel responsible to build a kind and inclusive? Christal Cherry 17:46 Hmm, I'd be curious to see what that looks like. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 17:48 Okay. Okay. And go ahead. Christal Cherry 17:53 Have you built trust amongst amongst board members to have hard conversations about differences and inequity? And that is something that Renee and I lead our clients in and having these hard conversations, but we're curious to know what you what you think about your board? Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 18:09 And again, that key is three? Absolutely, yes, we have absolutely build trust, and one is not at all. Oh, now we're starting to get some numbers coming in. Okay, let's take your four numbers. And you're gonna add them up? Yes, yeah. This is your number to be between four and 12. All right. So let's see what we got here. All right. So basically, cool. Okay, so everyone, we're getting some 898. Interesting. Your total is one to three beginning stages, a lot of work to be done. Four to six, some good effort, there's more you can do. Seven to nine, a lot is working well. And there are some areas that need attention. And 10 to 12. you're well on your way. Oh, gosh. So I've seen in the chat. I've seen some fives and sixes. Okay. I've seen some I've seen actually a range of numbers. No one is in the one. I haven't seen anybody in the 1234. I don't want to admit that to me category. Christal Cherry 19:15 They need to contact us right away. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 19:20 Yeah, really? Yeah. So So and again, as we said before, everything we're sharing here we are, this is a tool for you. We encourage you to take this questions back to your board as a way of beginning to reflect on on how well things are going. Christal Cherry 19:45 So what does being inclusive really mean? I mean, think about a time when you experienced the kind and inclusive culture who were you with? What made it kind and inclusive? And in the chat, you know, maybe type one What one thing you would like to bring to your board or team culture? What I want to bring to our border team culture is maybe just put that in the chat, Renee. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 20:09 Yeah. Yeah, I think I was thinking about I'm part of an organization called the Alliance for nonprofit management. And there was a sense of being open to each new person and being open to many different perspectives. And it's just from the time that I've joined this organization, just felt very affirming and really open to listening to all kinds of people. Yeah, that's great. What do you say, Christal Cherry 20:41 I'm part of a network of African American female fundraisers that used to be my old career before I delved into boards. And we are a really wonderful network of support system for one another, those of you who have delved in fundraising or had a fundraiser at your organization, I bow down to you, because I know how hard that is. And we really support one another through the ups and downs of the career of being a fundraiser. And often people are being let go, people are being dismissed and marginalized, not being paid what they should be paid. We also support one another when we have wins when we when there is a big grant someone's written or someone closes a big million dollar gift. We're there for each other. So I think being in a culture where you're feeling affirmed, where you feel you can be vulnerable. But you can also celebrate when you do something wonderful, is a kind of an inclusive culture. Hmm, yeah. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 21:36 Thank you for that. And I'm just seeing such wisdom in the chat here to having a safe space to share all ideas, acceptance of younger generation, deeper listening, greater balance of responsibilities, listening before responding. Yeah, I mean, I just really appreciate what each person is sharing. And, you know, one of the one of the assumptions that we come in with is, we believe that people do know how to do this, a lot of this may be something that you learned in kindergarten, and that it's a matter of really get how do you get back to it? Because what is everything that is being shared in the chat, we could just take it and make that happen, you know, we would actually have arrived. But it's like, well, what, what is preventing that from happening? Christal Cherry 22:27 We I just saw someone put in the chat about wanting to diversify their board, and I asked if you can find that on my website@wordpress.com. You can find that recent blog that I wrote about how the different how and why they diversify your board, and put it in the chat that may help that person who said that they're looking to diversify. You know, diversifying your board is something that Renee and I talk a lot about, it's really important. But even more important is once you bring them on, you know, it's great to diversify your board. But once you bring them on, what does it feel like to be on that board? What is the culture like that you're welcoming them into? And so we want to make sure that before we diversify, we do we do a pulse check just to see, are we really ready to bring in diverse voices? Are I board members really ready to bring in those who are completely different than them? Whether they are Muslim, whether they're in a wheelchair, whether it's a black woman with a big afro, or someone with tattoos on their neck, like someone who doesn't have the same sexual identity? Are you really ready to bring those persons in? So when you talk about diversity, you also have to talk about inclusion and belonging that is creating a kind and inclusive culture looks like Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 23:38 Rene, what do you say? Absolutely. Oh, Mike. Yeah, absolutely. And some of the conversations that you have, you and I have had and doing some research about this. It's almost like we have the same conversation again, and again, where there would be a person who was a black person who said, I came on this board and every but first of all, everybody I was the only black person on the board is anytime we were talking about race, everybody would look at me. It was it was really uncomfortable. I don't I no one can represent all people. So one of the practices we talked about is if you're going to recruit, first of all, doing some of the things that we were going to talk about here, so that you're prepared as you so that you your board is prepared. And then also potentially recruiting a cohort of people with similar identities so that one person isn't under pressure. And I have a post I think that is the right post from Christal. I have a post that I wrote to about board recruitment and talked about the Pacific Crest Trail organization and how they did this. They spent about a year doing this kind of background work, and then recruited several people and made an announcement that you know, the Pacific Crest Trail belongs to everybody. And now the words belong to me. in representation really matters. And it was, so I was really inspired, it was very much aligned with their values. So now I'm almost crying. Christal Cherry 25:10 When it reminds me of the client that we've worked with down in the south, the the museum, where they had music, they have moved the museum from a central location to a place that was not accessible to everyone. And so those who were not in that community now felt like that museums did not belong to them, right. And this was supposed to be a museum for the community, yet it was not accessible to everyone in the community. Do you think those people felt like they were in a kind of inclusive culture? Absolutely not. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 25:36 Right. And so what you're saying is so important that representation matters, location matters? How do we compare the building? It's not just a kind of inclusive culture where we get on Zoom, but it's actually a kind of an inclusive culture for the mission or organization out in the world. Yeah, so Okay. Okay. Let's see here. Where are we? Okay, I'm gonna go to my alright. So a couple of practices that build on this. So one of them is, is intentionality. And we put a quote on here, you have to be well, you have to be the person who's willing to speak up challenge norms. And if not heard, say it again, and say it again. So if you if you do this poll, and there's something that you have just learned, you do that assessment that we just did five minutes ago, and there's something that you learn, then how do you set that intention? I see the gap, we our current score was seven, I would like to be 11, or 10, or 12. What are we going to do, and really start with that intentionality. This is important to me, because for the work of our organization, like the museum, like the Pacific Crest Trail, everybody, this is an organization that belongs to the whole community. Christal Cherry 27:09 Excuse me, and we've put together a checklist for building a content inclusive culture. And so we want you to check off the ones that you feel are adequately, adequately represent you where you are right now. We hold the intention to be inclusive, lived experiences and points of view are honored and recognized on our board. Each person is respected for their differences. We listen to one another, we hear many voices, and I grew up not just two or three, the team or community is open to new people and ideas, we learn from one another, we know that we don't know everything. So we keep learning, right? We check our assumptions in a caring way, the contributions of each person's are honored, we feel comfortable taking risks and expressing vulnerability, and we feel safe to make mistakes and have every opportunity and responsibility to repair. And so I'm wondering how you found on this checklist? Just maybe put it in the chat, you know, you were able to answer most of those check off most of those or your list is completely blank. Which I hope not. But these are some of the things we want you to consider if you think about whether or not you're in this. Rene, we Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 28:24 Yeah, again, I think what we're trying to do here is is share some tools that you can use with your board. So we encourage you to take this list and and have each you know, and take some take some time in an upcoming board meeting and have each person reflect on on where you know how many of these, the board you they would say yes to and then you know, again, put your numbers on the wall and have a conversation. And so this isn't, you know, again, we're we're trying to bring this down to earth, it's there are some concrete things that you can do and focus on to build an inclusive culture. Christal Cherry 29:08 So I want to I want to highlight the last the last bullet here the one before the last one we feel comfortable taking risks and expressing vulnerability because we know that so many times you know people are in board meetings and they don't feel comfortable speaking up they don't feel comfortable taking the risk of maybe saying something that doesn't make people feel good, you know, but the only way that you can kind of get past the blockages that people have and get past changing the culture is to speak risk and being a little vulnerable. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 29:41 Absolutely thank you for that. I thought you were gonna mention we feel safe to make mistakes and have responsibility to repair wants to someone said in the chat you cannot add these numbers cannot add up to between one and three. You're right I'm gonna take a look at that. I think my, my mind has been going back to the map. We're all imperfect, you know, that's okay. We're gonna show up imperfect and have a good time. And how do we, but but even if it is a mistake, like I use the wrong pronoun for somebody, I refer to somebody in a way that is offensive to them as, as I, you know, that I didn't realize, all right, you know, we're, we're how do we say, you know, what, I want to do better? And how do I repair? And just kind of keep that conversation going, as you as we talked about before, building trust, understanding that mistakes will be made? Yes. So yeah. Okay. Okay, so, whoo, talking about power. So this is one that we, we, we talk to when we speak with a prospective client, we talk about this a lot, because we do not believe that you can do this work without talking about power. Who speaks? What happens when do ideas or raise how our decisions made? Who makes those decisions? And who has the power to change them? And we want to encourage you to talk about power early and often, let's say, because, because yeah, this this work is about shifting power. Christal Cherry 31:32 Yeah, this one makes me throw my pen here every day, because this is so important to a lot of times important meetings is always the same two or three people who are speaking up. And then other folks who, who may not say much, right, and then you know, the board chair, whoever's leading, the organization doesn't empower other folks to speak, they may not, you know, call on them and say, Listen, you know, Linda, we've not heard from you today. What do you think about this? Or Young? What do you think about this? Or, you know, Sharon, do you have any ideas, and so sometimes pulling people out and giving them permission to speak, letting them know, we all have power here, everyone's voices matter. And so we really want you to contribute. And but sometimes, those kinds of environments are not encouraged, right, in the same two or three people are doing all the talking and making all the decisions in their in their own little bubble. And that does not make for nice and calm and inclusive culture. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 32:30 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so. And one of the things that, that we have talked about, but in different ways, both of us I've certainly written on, written on my blog about this is these kinds of informal and formal practices. So there are different practices that you can do to strengthen your meetings and make them more kind of inclusive, take some time to talk about your values. And think about how to those values in foreign policy, using meeting agreements is a really simple one. How do we want to be together, potentially rotating leaders for meetings, and then another one, I'm laughing because it seems so simple, but some organizations do not do this, sharing information ahead of time, so that all participants have time to process and reflect, they're really understanding that people process information differently. And people do want to think ahead of time about what you're, you know, what you're taught what the content is, in what you're going to be talking about, and finding meeting times that work for all. I personally was part, or am sort of part of an organization that wants to have all of these 7am meetings. And as a working parent, that is a really terrible time for me. So you're thinking about all right, how do we don't make the assumption that Oh, everybody on your board, or everybody on our board is retired? So they can just mean any time? You know, but how do you really go to where the people are, and the people who are part of your group now and who you want to bring in? Christal Cherry 34:17 Right? I agree with you. And not only meeting Tom's meeting locations, Rene, for those who don't have easy transportation, if you're not meeting on Zoom, again, still meeting in person, making sure your locations are at places where everyone can get to them if the wheelchair getting to the train, whatever it is, but the all of those things, all lead into this culture where people are being seen, and feeling included. Thank you. So responsibility, you know, you know, each of us needs to own and create a culture that will make people feel comfortable. And we each play a role in that right we don't we think, you know, who's whose responsibility is it? It's it's all of us, right? And so we need to allow people to be bring their true selves, as I mentioned earlier, to the boardroom, you know whether you have someone who wears a head guard, like the woman in the slide, or you have a couple here, or you have a woman here who has a different hairstyle, so all of those people can come to to a boardroom and be accepted for who they are and not have to make any excuses or allowances or be the representative for those individual groups. Right. So we want to make sure that that is all part of this kind of inclusive culture. Renee, did you want to add anything? Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 35:32 I think this, this goes back to the idea of, okay, we we are responsible, don't you know, it's not like somebody else out there is going to do this, you know, so how do we get it? Starting with the selfie look in the mirror? What are we creating together? And do we like it isn't working for us or not? And if it's not, then what do we need? How do we should start shifting things? Christal Cherry 35:55 Right? Now, I love that you emphasize values, and people don't really take that into consideration. But you know, determining early on what your values are you creating a culture statement that outlines what your values are in terms of respecting people's voices and making sure there's a spirit of teamwork, making sure that this is greater collegiality and even fun, right? We want this to be a fun experience. We don't want to sitting here lamenting about being on the board or having to go to these reports, but we want this to be an enjoyable experience for all so I think values and creating a culture statement early on, really will make a difference for for footboards. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 36:33 Yes, and one of the things in the work, which we're about to talk about the the training that we do, and one of the things that comes up is really thinking about what is the mission statement of this organization? What is the organization trying to do every day? And how does how does this work? And how does this, you know, how does this connect with that mission statement? So it's like, we're trying to serve everybody, and we're trying to build a, you know, an arts and arts space where everybody thrives. But we're not reaching 50% of the community. Hmm. There's this gap there. And now, what are we going to do about it? Okay, so we're, we have a training that we do for nonprofit boards, and teams. And we wanted to tell you a little bit about it, and how it responds to some of these questions and issues. This is a four to six month series of workshops where we, well go ahead. Christal Cherry 37:42 We start off when we when we take on a new client, right, and we start off by doing assessment of who the organization is. And so this requires kind of a deep dive on our part. And we we look at your website, we look at your strategic plan, we look at your bylaws, we we will interview staff, we will serve on your board or survey. We're volunteers just to kind of get a full sense of who you are as an organization. And then we report back to you what we learned. And often we find and uncover things during the stage right that sometimes the client may or may not have initially shared with us when they brought us on. But we do this so that we can have a full sense of what's really going on behind the scenes because you realize we're coming in because usually there's an issue, usually this board needs some kind of support. And we're there to find out where the nooks and crannies are where we can kind of get in there and really help them to change how things are going. Yes. Okay. And then a lot of the information from this assessment is really, this is really a mirror. We are taking this from, as Christal mentioned from interviews survey, and looking at how the organization is works is working. And so this is a mirror. All right. And so now that you see all of this, how do you feel about it? How do you feel about it? What do you want to do? And Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 39:08 we mentioned earlier is seeing that gap between hmm, we think that we are x, we think that we are an organization that serves the whole community. And yet, or we think that we are providing information about this particular disease as a recent client to everyone in our town, but it turns out that the information is only getting out to the white people. And it's a lot harder to for communities of color to access this information. What do you want to do about it? Now, and and it's a little hard to hear that sometimes, but understood, but starting to see that gap is really the beginning of of making change. Okay, and then we we do a lot of work on working with the group to talk about race and racial equity. As we mentioned, these are a series of trainings, a series of workshops, really, this is a conversation, it's we're not, it's not, it's very interactive. At the beginning, we talk about bias. And then we start talking about race specifically, and sharing and having group members share their race stories, and what they learned about race as a way to begin to be more comfortable with talking about race and racial equity. We share our race stories, and, and then send people off to, you know, to share those as well. And Krystal and I have had really different experiences. And and, you know, and are, are also on the journey of, of, you know, continuing to learn, but it's like, how do we how do we model being open about our strengths, challenges? And so we can encourage the group to do that as well? Christal Cherry 41:13 Absolutely. And while I focus primarily on race, when we talk about equity, we mean equity in all cases, you know, we've had folks who will call us out and say, but what about folks who have disabilities who are deaf? What about the LGBTQ community, and when we say equity, we do include all of those different groups. And, and but we do talk a lot about race in our in our, in our trainings, acknowledging that there are other groups that also should be included when we're talking about equity. Thank you. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 41:44 All right, and Christal Cherry 41:49 And so before we end, so normally, the processes as Rene mentioned, we have three or four virtual workshops. Because Rene is in California, I'm in Atlanta. And so we work with you primarily virtually, if the budget will allow, we'd like to do our last session with you, in person. And Renee and I have both done that we've flown to different areas and have in person met with the client and the board. And we help you to develop a plan based on what everything that we've talked about everything that we've learned, working with you for the last three to six months, and we work with you to create a plan, the plan is yours. We kind of talked through it with you and you come up with your own goals on what can you do to create a kind inclusive culture, what can you do in terms of how you're treating one another in terms of how you're viewing one another whether or not the right people are in the room, whether that those people in the room have a voice. And then we encourage you to come up with three tangible, wildly important goals that you'd like to look at, and then figure out over the course of the next year, and what you're going to do to to achieve those goals. And so we walk away, we walk away giving you a plan so that you can continue to do the work, this is ongoing work. This is not work that can be changed or shifted in just three to six months. But we give you a plan a roadmap, if you will, so that you can keep it going long tasks, you're retiring with Rene and I. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 43:15 Absolutely. Yes. And every once in a while we check in how's the plan going? That some of the plans have included? Okay, every you know, we're going to start talking about equity at every board meeting, we're going to figure out ways that the board members can go from, from not really affirming this equity work, to really being ambassadors for the work and being more involved with it. So those are some of the some of the kinds of things that come out of this process. The work is not completed, but usually when people reach out to us, they're stuck in some way. And so it's like, well, what needs to happen and this is really the conversation to become unstuck, so that that your organization can can deepen your work in this area. Okay, so, um, we're curious. We shared a whole bunch of tools. And we'd love we'd love to know from you, from what you've heard today, what is one step that you will take me a kind and inclusive going back to that intentionality, commitment. What is something that you would take away that you feel like you could do? Mm hmm. Christal Cherry 44:54 Managing the size human resources about managing the size of the board Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 45:01 So I see, meet with the leadership on how to implement this speak, get over from my aversion to conflict and speak up more lead with values. Do the status check, look at the checklist. Do those self reflection questions? Yeah, yeah. Christal Cherry 45:21 Someone mentioned the size of the board, you know, the boys have been shrinking over the years, the average size of a board is about 50. But you have to determine how large of a vote you want based on how many people you can accommodate, right. And so we say seven to nine is probably a good number. But if you're a large organization, and you think you can do 13, or 15, by all means, but you want to make sure that you have a board chair who's going to be reaching out to those individuals to make them feel welcomed, right, that the executive director or the CEO will also be having, you know, hopefully, two or two times a year, we'll be meeting with each board member having coffee with him. Again, this is all part of creating this culture where everyone feels included, everyone feels good about the work they're doing. They're being communicated with and being reached out to, they're being asked about their experiences as board members, they're being asked how they can be used, how their skill sets can be used optimally to contribute to the board. So all of those things will help you to determine what is a good size? What is that the optimal size for a board of our organization based on our budget based on how many people we have based on the accommodations we can give to our board members. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 46:30 And I see this question and thank you ally for the question. Some thoughts about the importance and awareness of including someone who's a beneficiary services? Or is on the program delivery side, making sure that person's voice and positions hold equal value? I think so many of the things that we've talked about today are relevant, first of all, starting with with a conversation with that intentionality, right? We want to we want to be inclusive, we want to make sure that everyone's voice is heard and honored. What are what are some steps we need to take knowing that somebody who is a client is or you know, has been a client is going to join our board. Right? Christal Cherry 47:22 You don't underestimate the value of having someone who has that lived experiences, because again, we talked about those being closest to the problems being able to weigh in on the solutions. And often we have people who sit on boards, whose proximity to the populations is so far away, they have absolutely no clue what it's like to be homeless, or to be a pregnant teen or, you know, whatever the issue is, but by having someone on the board who has been through that, they bring with you the real life experiences of what it's like to be in that position. And consider them Nope, I don't think we should go that direction. I remember when I was, you know, what was important to me was, so having that voice to bring you back to reality. If you have folks who are sitting on a board and women and I've had clients at least one client where, you know, it was a very wealthy white board, working for organizations that were supporting brown women who, who were who were pregnant, and these individuals on the board had no clue what it was like to be in those shoes. Right. And so not having someone on the board who has been through that was a disadvantage for them. So yes, absolutely representation from your community absolutely matters. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 48:39 And I think I would also say, you know, lean on your staff, because if you have a assuming that you have a staff with some expertise, and you could really draw, use your staff, some of your staff people bring them to a board meeting. And so, you know, we're is there something that we do need to take into account, so that we you know, I am guessing that if there if there are any, you know, any ways that you need to modify your meeting, that the staff, people, your staff, people might have some thoughts about that? You know, it may be that there are Oh, okay. Lynn says, Okay, I'm a staff person. It may be there that there are and maybe that there aren't. But again, going back to speed really transparent, being really intentional. We're going to make mistakes, but what is the what is the culture that we're trying to build? Asking staff about what obstacles might come up in doing that and having somebody who is might be, you know, current or past client. So you have some sources for information, even in your own organization that you could definitely draw? Christal Cherry 49:53 I mean, yeah, I love that. You said that because so many times staff are not invited to come to board meetings, right. And you certainly don't Want them in every single board meeting. But certainly having those folks who are working closer to the to your populations, your program staff, the folks who are out in the field, whether they're social workers or whoever it is, who are out there actually interacting with the people coming back to the board and saying, This is what we're seeing, this is what we're hearing, these are the challenges we're experiencing, so that they can have a clue. Right? Like to work with those populations. So thank you for coming. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 50:25 Yeah. All right. So um, okay, so we're pretty much at the end of our content. And we just want to give you some, if you want to, we would love to stay in touch. If you, you know, I have a blog, I put my link over there, subscribe, we have a training that we do together. And if you want to find out more about it, you can actually reach out to either of our websites, the border pro trainings, or the Ross collective equity training. And you get more of this basically. Christal Cherry 51:05 And as you can see, Rene and I have a really wonderful report, working as a cross race team really helps us because we both come with such different experiences. But the one thing we share is that we love working with boards, we're passionate about making this a wonderful experiences for for our board members and for our nonprofits. And to take this role as a board member seriously, you know, you have a lot of power to make good things happen. And we want to make sure that the environment feels good as you feel included that the culture is kind and that you're able to be productive. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 51:36 Yeah. And one of the things is, in these times, I mean, this feels more urgent than ever. And these in these like post and pandemic, post pandemic times, people are very thoughtful about where they want to put their time. And if it doesn't feel kind of inclusive, it's like, you know, why waste the time? And so it is, if you feel like we have some we have some work to do in this area. It's it's gonna benefit every single person on your board to deepen these relationships. Absolutely. No. Christal Cherry 52:14 Resources. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 52:15 Yeah, we have, we did put in our slide deck of a whole bunch of podcasts that we've done called more webinars, further reading from both of us. So I know that the Abby will be sending out the PDF after and you'll get the slide deck tomorrow. Should we have a few more minutes, so we can definitely if there are stop sharing my screen? And if there are questions, we can take some some questions. What do you say? See if someone can stop us here? Yeah. Abby Jarvis 52:51 We got a couple of really wonderful questions. And you guys answered so many of them before I can even live them. One that I really love, because it's come up a few times. Someone asked about, what do you do about an individual board members ability to donate? In the past? I've had a give or get aspect for board members, how do you navigate that board requirement? Christal Cherry 53:15 Oh, goodness, you guys tapped into like, ongoing debate between Rene and I are on this give again. So I I'll preface this by saying I'm a former fundraiser, right. And so my mindset is a little different in that I know and understand the importance of what members giving to an organization. I know that a lot of times foundations will ask about board giving before they determine whether they'll give to you. And I also know that having skin in the game and showing your financial support being a leader and modeling giving is important for organization. I also know that folks have been precluded from serving on boards because they don't have the ability to make a $10,000 donation. I also know that you're, you're giving them out sometimes dictates what determines how you're treated. I mean, I remember being inside where you know, if we had a $30,000 donor or board member who called you know, I was told I can interrupt my CEO to get him on the phone. Right. You know, if the $100,000 board member is calling, stop everything so the boy check it out. So the one president or the CEO can talk to them with you know, the $500 board member, you know, he'll get back to you this afternoon. Right. And so we know that there's some just some discrepancies in the way that people are treated. So I am aware of both sides but I do believe that board members should make a donation they should make a meaningful donation or there should be an amount that's reasonable for for them, Renee. Oh, wow. I Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 54:45 think we're getting closer. Yes, I'm in agreement, that there's that there should but if you if you're sending a certain number if you're saying everybody has to give five that was in or 10,000, or whatever it is, that is going to be that is going to exclude some people who cannot afford to do that on is, if at all possible, it should be a contribution that is meaningful to the person. But that may mean something very different for for, for different people, depending on what, and it's depending on what they are bringing, depending on their financial situation. And it's important to say that that people are contributing in different ways to so contributions aren't only about money. So we don't we certainly I personally would not advocate a minimum donation. I know it is something that organizations want to lean on, because it's like, well, we know we're getting X amount of money every year from the board by doing this, but I do I do not believe that number is is inequitable way of doing things. Christal Cherry 56:00 But I will say this, if you do have a number, you know, be clear and upfront about that before the person joins the board. Right. And so I'll know coming in whether or not I you know, if you tell me, you know, the requirement is, you know, $5,000, it's unlikely I'm going to be able to join your board, I can't give a $5,000 donation, right. So I want to know upfront whether or not I am in a position to be on your board, if that is a requirement. So I would not hold that information. Until the end of your board interview, I would certainly say upfront, and I do board certain checks, I say to my clients, and people who are looking to bring on boards. Listen, they're requesting that each board member make a $2,500 donation. Are you in a position to do that? If the person says no, then I'll say to them, Well, unfortunately, this is what they're asking. And so this is not the right board for you. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 56:47 And by the way, because it's not kind of inclusive of somebody join a board and then say, Oh, by the way, just we forgot to mention that you are responsible for a $5,000 yearly. Yeah. So that's please don't go that way. Abby Jarvis 57:04 Thinking about they just sent chills down my spine does. It maybe it's helpful. Maybe it's not the board that I most recently served on ask that we be in the they'd be in the top three boards, or the top three organizations we supported. So that was an interesting way to Christal Cherry 57:21 talk to me charitable donations that you give each year. Yeah, yeah. Abby Jarvis 57:25 I love this question from Mark. Mark said Our board is interested in diversifying the area in which we're located is not very diverse. How do you look for a diversified board when the population doesn't support it? Christal Cherry 57:38 Yeah. And one of the things that's happening now is that we have virtual meetings, right, a lot of boards have said, we realize now that people can serve and not live in the exact area where we're located. So a lot of boards have been open to having someone served from a different state, you know, and, you know, maybe they have virtual meetings, and they have one in person meeting a year where that person can fly in to be with the board members. But I think expanding your your search and expanding your network will help you to find individuals who are interested in love your passion, but they just don't live in Rhode Island, or they don't live in Iowa, but they love the work that you do giving them an opportunity to still support you. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 58:21 I think I would also encourage a reflective conversation, who is our community? Who is our community? And is the board representing our community representing the community and not just the community doesn't mean the people that we historically we know already, that community actually mean, who is in who is being served, and who is part of this geographic area. And so I think that the board, the board should have perspectives that represent that community, whatever it might be. And one of the things that I talked about in my board development class is about boundary crossing. So it's, it's, you know, we're beyond, it's not enough to say, we don't know anyone who is x, and that means they're not part of, you know, you gotta go go beyond that. Christal Cherry 59:09 Yeah, yeah. And you can't Yes, and yeah, I'm gonna say there because often boards will say to me, too, I don't we don't know anyone. And I'm like, Well, what are you doing proactively to find individuals, you have to go to where they are, right? You can't sit at home and sit in your office and expect them to just fall in your lap. That means you have to reach out to the community leaders in your community who are of different rates or a different persuasion and reach out to them and introduce yourselves, you know, whether it be you're going to either churches, whether you're going to you know, grocery stores, whether you're going to their events, right and saying to them, this is a wonderful organization, we would love to have you be a part. Abby Jarvis 59:48 I love that being proactive can be really scary, but it's so important. Yeah. Um, someone asked a question, and it kind of actually ties into that. Do you have any tips or pointers on using hybrid meetings as a way both to be more inclusive and more accessible. And as a way to reach new people. Do you have any tips for making that work? Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 1:00:09 Well? Yeah, I see this question from Amy. Hi, Amy. Good to see you. Um, so, I mean, I think it's really, it's challenging. And it does take, I mean, if you're going to, if you're going to do hybrid meetings, I would say, make sure you have technology, where every you're gonna be able to hear from everybody where everybody is, think about what are the different pieces that people need to participate? All of that. And then are there some times where you sometimes do hybrid, but sometimes do you know, everybody coming in person, because it I mean, it's sort of like going back to evaluating take a selfie on your hybrid meetings, how it's actually working? Christal Cherry 1:00:59 Right now. And if you haven't been having meetings virtually, and the network that I referenced earlier that I'm a part of, there's 62 of us, and we're all over the country, and we meet monthly. And so most of the time, I lead those meetings, and I'm always trying to think of ways that you're going to make those meetings interesting and enjoyable. And so, you know, even if you're a corporate board, if your board is more corporate, like, you know, when they come into the meeting, maybe have some soft music playing as people enter into the meeting, opening the meeting up by asking everybody what they've been doing, How's your summer going, who's been on vacation lately, just like creating some sense of people able to kind of share a little bit before you jump into one business. But to create an environment where people feel comfortable as much as they want to sharing a little bit about what's going on in their lives asking leading questions, like who's, who's been to a really great concert? Or when's the best movie you've seen? Or the question I always ask is, what's the first concert you ever attended? Right? And people like, oh, my god, that was in 1976. I saw Sharon, Sonny Bono, right, you know, I saw LL Cool J or I saw, you know, Beyonce, whoever it is, and people will start reading and I'll ask them, Well, what were you wearing? Oh, my God, I had a big afro, I had long hair, if people start talking. So just trying to figure out what it is to kind of get people talking and socializing before the actual board meeting starts. And they'll, they'll look forward to actually come in. So creating that environment where people are feeling connected. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 1:02:24 And we've gotten in a circle here, Lynn says the thing that I was gonna say, which is Yeah, use the use, how do you feel it does not have to be so profound? It's really just like, hey, what's on your mind? Yeah, what's on your mind? Versus Okay, we're gonna do board business without any kind of transition. Yeah. We're running over breaking up. Yeah. Abby Jarvis 1:02:44 I know. You guys really? Well, that was the last big question. And I don't know about the rest of you who are still on the call. I learned so much. I'm going to be revisiting that checklist for a long time. Thank you both so much for sharing this with us. This was a ton of fun. Everyone, thank you for being here. I know you're busy. And I know that you are doing a lot of things every day and taking time out of your day for you to come here and spend time with us. It's wonderful. Thank you for that. I'm gonna send you an email tomorrow morning, it should go out unless something wacky happens around 10am. That will include a link to a page where you can see this recording and download the slides. And check out all the wonderful links that they've included there. Everyone, thank you so much for being here. Hope you have a wonderful Wednesday, and I will talk to you tomorrow morning. Christal Cherry 1:03:37 All right. Take care. Bye. Bye every day. Dr. Renee Rubin Ross 1:03:42 Thank you, Abby. Transcribed by https://otter.ai